Your top ten TEST bowlers of ALL-TIME

[the big bambino]

Ok. I found him a bit samey compared to Akram. Now he was fun to watch. Never knew what was going to happen next but you knew it was going to be special.

 

[watson]

Top list though I always wonder why people prefer Waqar over Akram, great though both were. EDIT re Underwood. I wouldn't say he was as good as Warne but don't think there is that much between them. From recollection he was a magnificent bowler and caused Australia a high proportion of the problems Warne later caused England.

That's right. From what I remember the Australian batsman never really fathomed Underwood and had numerous problems against him. The West Indian batman on the other hand seemed to relish his bowling. I assume it's because they played him like a medium pacer and punched the ball through the leg-side field. The Australian batman tended to be more conventional and attempted to play his deliveries through the off-side. I'm not sure exactly why this should make a huge difference, but it obviously did.

 

[jonbrooks]

My top 10 bowlers, not in any order:

Shane Warne
Anil Kumble
Curtley Ambrose
Richard Hadlee
Waqar Younis
Wasim Akram
Shane Bond
Simon Jones
Lasith Malinga
Shaoib Akhtar

 

[the big bambino]

That's right. From what I remember the Australian batsman never really fathomed Underwood and had numerous problems against him. The West Indian batman on the other hand seemed to relish his bowling. I assume it's because they played him like a medium pacer and punched the ball through the leg-side field. The Australian batman tended to be more conventional and attempted to play his deliveries through the off-side. I'm not sure exactly why this should make a huge difference, but it obviously did.

Deadly certainly had the indian sign on G Chappell. You are right about the WI having no trouble with him (as India had little trouble with Warne). Can't really put my finger on it as I never saw him bowl at the WI. The point is our batsmen met him at a straight line. However that translated as an angle when you took into account his turn at speed. I think the WI found a method of playing a line based on his turn rather than his flight and that removed his menace.

 

[smash84]

Top list though I always wonder why people prefer Waqar over Akram, great though both were..

I think it might have to do with their attitude. For mine Akram was definitely the better bowler but if the chips were down and things were going badly against him then Akram probably gave up sooner than Waqar would. Waqar would attack the batsman come what may. Maybe that is what puts him ahead of Akram for some people.

 

[Muloghonto]

Gavaskar, Amarnath, Viswanath, kapil is as good a lineup as Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman/Azharuddin , Ganguly? I don't see how you can argue that our 90s/2000s lineup wasn't far superior . Murali and Warne had it way tougher.

Even if we assume underwood was better for indian conditions, how does that mean that he is close to Warne and Murali as you suggest. I think the top three spinners of all time are Warne Murali and O'reilly by a clear distance for a reason. It's because their achievements dwarf most others'.

I'm all for celebrating the past, but I just think you're kidding yourself if you believe underwood was as good as Murali/Warne

Against spin, Indian lineup of the 70s and 80s were every bit as good as the Indian lineup of the 90s and 2000s. Its against pace that the latter side was significantly superior, as except for Gavaskar and Amarnath, nobody in the Indian lineup could play pace back then. The likes of Vengsarkar, Sharma, Borde, Umrigar, etc. were worse than Ganguly against pace. Kapil was inconsistent. He could play spin or pace better than most but he could give you a duck against a no-name bowling side as likely as scoring a ton against the four prong.

Underwood was the left arm version of Kumble- sort of. He bowled fastish, had a good top spinner ( for a finger spinner, i think he was the first finger spinner to specialise in the top spinner) and a good arm ball. Above all, Underwood was a specialist on sticky or uneven wickets- precisely like Kumble and Indian pitches back in the 70s and early 80s were prone to breaking up and giving uneven bounce by the 4th day.

What makes Murali or Warne great are their all terrain capabilities. The likes of Underwood and Kumble were far less threatening on pitches that were opposite to their needs but they were far deadlier on pitches that were tailormade for them. A Kumble special- like Chennai or Feroz Shah Kotla used to be, was the toughest challenge in cricket, more so than Murali at the SSC or Galle.

 

[Muloghonto]

As for my list, from bowlers I've seen ( mid/late 70s onwards), in no particular order:

1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Curtley Ambrose
3. Wasim Akram
4. Bhagwat Chandrasekhar
5. Glenn McGrath
6. Alan Donald
7. Michael Holding
8. Andy Roberts
9. Denis Lillee
10. Muttiah Muraitharan

 

[nightprowler10]

no, the logic is that there would be other people to take the top order wickets with him so he'd get more of a shot at the lower order/tail while he's still fresh.

I think this logic applies very well to pacers not spinners.

Perhaps Murali and Warne are both horribly over-rated.

3 Tests/24 wickets/average of 20.95

Saqlain >>>>>>

 

[Slifer]

I personally don't think that spinners and pacers should be compared. IMO they perform different roles and it is much harder to be a world class spinner, than it is to be a world class fast bowler. Hence, I suggest we rank them separately:


Pacers (in no order):

Marshall
Mcgrath
Imran
Ambrose
Hadlee
Trueman
Donald
Lillee
Wasim
Steyn

Spinners

Warne
Murali
Grimmet
O'reilley
Verity
Laker
Underwood
Tayfield
Bedi?
Kumble

 

[watson]

The greatest.......

01. Malcolm Marshall
02. Dennis Lillee
03. Muttiah Muralitheran
04. Sydney Barnes
05. Bill O'Reilly
06. Richard Hadlee
07. Imran Khan
08. Ray Lindwall
09. Curtly Ambrose
10. Shane Warne

 

[Red]

 

[kyear2]

When spinners are mentioned there are three which separate themselves from the pack; Warne, Muralitharan and O'Reilly. When fast bowlers are mentioned there are only four who contends for the title of the best ever; Marshall, McGrath, Barnes and Lillee. That leaves me with three available spots and it's a close call but I go with Ambrose and Trueman and the competition for the third spot is wide open and Steyn will probably be there before his career is finished, so may just put him there now ahead of Holding, Hadlee, Donald and Imran.

01. Malcolm Marshall
02. Glenn McGrath
03. Syd Barnes
04. Dennis Lillee
T5. Shane Warne
T5. Muttiah Muralitharan
07. Curtly Ambrose
08. William O'Reilly
09. Fred Trueman
10. Dale Steyn

With regards for who was the best. Only one bowler had every tool in the book (searing pace, swing, bounce, cutters, seam) and knew when and where to use them. He performed everywhere the world over and dominated and was equally brilliant both home and away. He averaged less than 25 in all countries vs all opponents and finished his career with an average under 21 and a s/r under 48 while picking up over 4.5 wpm while competing for wickets.
He also put his team on his back and despite retirements (Lloyd, Holding, Robers) and decline of key players (Viv and Greenidge) never lost a series and in his prime as an opening bowler lost all of three tests*.

*Can't pull up stat guru, so going from memory

 

[ohnoitsyou]

When fast bowlers are mentioned there are only five who contends for the title of the best ever; Marshall, McGrath, Barnes, Hadlee and Lillee. That leaves me with two available spots and it's a close call but I go with Ambrose and Trueman and the competition for the third spot is wide open and Steyn will probably be there before his career is finished, so may just put him there now ahead of Holding, Donald and Imran.

fixed

 

[Jono]

Best 10 I have ever seen:

1. McGrath
2. Ambrose
3. Murali/Warne (gfy)
4. Warne/ Murali (gfy)
5. Steyn
6. Donald
7. Pollock
8. Akram
9. Walsh
10. Asif

Didn't see Waqar at his best. Kumble unlucky but had limitations outside the subcontinent until late in his career.

 

[kyear2]

fixed

It was good the way it was.

 

[Migara]

On howstat you can compare Murali and Marshall. Admittedly not much more than a comparison btwn 2 men rather than a definitive comparison btwn bowlers who hunted in a pack v lone wolfs. 1st up Marshall. Top order 33%. Mid order 40%. Tail 27%.

Murali. Top order 25%. Mid order 42%. Tail 33%.

It would seem that the lone wolf got more opportunities at the tail. Though as a different kind of bowler than Marshall you would expect Murali to have a smaller % of top order wickets but there is nothing to differentiate either man from accessing mid order and tail end wickets with one exception being opportunity. On this skinny comparison it can indicate being a lone wolf gives you more tail end opportunities.

The number of lower order batsman dismissed is totally irrelevant to the topic. It's how much opportunity they got. Murali was bloody good sending them to the dressing room. It's bleeding obvious that Marshall's or Warne's peers bowled more innings per match on average than Murali's peers. WI and Australia took 20 wickets (or wickets per match) more regularly than Sri Lanka. If Aussies took 17 on average and SL took 14 on average, it's obvious that Aussie bowlers had the chance to bowl at the tail more. Anyone can check stats, they would give a similaar result.

 

[Migara]

And you'd be able to back that up by quoting which figure or fact exactly? Is this just another one of those cases when you opinion trumps all?

Since 1960 the top ten spin bowlers have averages ranging btwn 26 - 40 against Australia. Four have averages in the 20s.

The top 10 spinners v India have ranged 22 - 48. 3 have averages in the 20s.

There is little difference btwn either country's ability to play spin. Certainly India is not demonstrably better.

Pakistan up to mid 1980s?

 

[Slifer]

When spinners are mentioned there are three which separate themselves from the pack; Warne, Muralitharan and O'Reilly. When fast bowlers are mentioned there are only four who contends for the title of the best ever; Marshall, McGrath, Barnes and Lillee. That leaves me with three available spots and it's a close call but I go with Ambrose and Trueman and the competition for the third spot is wide open and Steyn will probably be there before his career is finished, so may just put him there now ahead of Holding, Hadlee, Donald and Imran.

01. Malcolm Marshall
02. Glenn McGrath
03. Syd Barnes
04. Dennis Lillee
T5. Shane Warne
T5. Muttiah Muralitharan
07. Curtly Ambrose
08. William O'Reilly
09. Fred Trueman
10. Dale Steyn

With regards for who was the best. Only one bowler had every tool in the book (searing pace, swing, bounce, cutters, seam) and knew when and where to use them. He performed everywhere the world over and dominated and was equally brilliant both home and away. He averaged less than 25 in all countries vs all opponents and finished his career with an average under 21 and a s/r under 48 while picking up over 4.5 wpm while competing for wickets.
He also put his team on his back and despite retirements (Lloyd, Holding, Robers) and decline of key players (Viv and Greenidge) never lost a series and in his prime as an opening bowler lost all of three tests*.

*Can't pull up stat guru, so going from memory[/QUOTE]

Two thumbs up !!!

 

[Migara]

Exactly as I thought. The clear 2nd team after WI, Underwood averages 38.1. Can remember that Pakistani batsmen ended careers of Indian spin quartet.

So spinners do struggle against the best of the sides although they are not the best of spin playing sides?

 

[NUFAN]

Best 10 I have ever seen:

1. McGrath
2. Ambrose
3. Murali/Warne (gfy)
4. Warne/ Murali (gfy)
5. Steyn
6. Donald
7. Pollock
8. Akram
9. Walsh
10. Asif

Didn't see Waqar at his best. Kumble unlucky but had limitations outside the subcontinent until late in his career.

Is Asif a bit of a personal favourite of yours Jono or chosen mainly because top 10 lists require a left field selection? Asif was a decent bowler but i think you could easily mount a case for Bishop, Bond, Harris, Philander or even Fanie de Villiers as bowlers who didn't necessarily play that much but had just as much success as Asif.

From the same period of time, my top 10 are as follows:

1 Curtly Ambrose
2 Glenn McGrath
3 Shane Warne
4 Muttiah Muralitharan
5 Wasim Akram
6 Waqar Younis
7 Dale Steyn
8 Courtney Walsh
9 Allan Donald
10 Ian Bishop