Your ATG team pace bowling trio

[number11]

Thanks for your perspective.

Would be interested in your overall AT XI if you don't mind.

I will offer you 2 - an XI from those I've seen and then an XI including those I haven't seen based on historical research/expert opinion.

XI 1. (Seen IRT [meaningfully])

Gavaskar
G. Smith
Viv
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis (could well be Beefy, 2nd AR).
Gilchrist +
Khan *
Marshall
Akram
Warne

AT (including historic etc)

Gavaskar
Hobbs
Bradman *
Viv
Lara
Sobers
Gilly +
Khan
Akram
Marshall
Warne

2 openers, 3 m/o bats, 2 ARs, 1 wkt, 3 bowlers.

Akram makes it for the LH variation. Warne is my spinner. If I played no spinner, It'd be Lillee coming in.

 

[number11]

Bowlers like Thommo are great to have in your team if playing against average Test batsmen/teams, but in ATG vs ATG games I wouldn't see them being as big a threat. Might even end up becoming a liability with some of the great batsmen he'd be bowling to.

Prime Thommo was a force of nature.

 

[Coronis]

I assume you mean Kallis here?

I do.

 

[Coronis]

Because he was the Kobe Bryant of Test fast bowlers. Really impressive, great mystique but not necessarily among the very most efficient player's in the game's history.

That’s actually a decent comparison.

 

[Coronis]

Further proof stats is the only criteria to select the best bowler now days. Anyone who saw Lillee bowl rated him the best above his peers of Hadlee, Marshall, Roberts, Holding , Garner, Willis, Imran. Only people looking purely at stats sheets say differently

I think this is a somewhat similar to certain other players we’ve talked about, with Lillee coming in and peaking much earlier than Hadlee and especially Imran. Brings to mind thoughts of Ponting and Kallis/Sanga for me. It almost feels wrong calling them peers because the latter two were at their best in the 80’s and Lillee was at his best in the 70’s.

 

[subshakerz]

You recently claimed Marshall was a lock in an ATG team (correct) but then said McGrath would also be a lock. How's that working out for you with McGrath only getting 48% of vote as 2nd or 3rd pacer (so more people said no to McGrath then picked him)

I prefer McGrath but suggesting he is a lock while Hadlee is still around is ridiculous.

 

[kyear2]

I prefer McGrath but suggesting he is a lock while Hadlee is still around is ridiculous.

All subjective, and not everyone picks these things based on how they bat.

 

[subshakerz]

All subjective, and not everyone picks these things based on how they bat.

Don't say he is a lock. That is just wrong. It makes it sound like dropping him for Hadlee is silly.

 

[kyear2]

Don't say he is a lock. That is just wrong. It makes it sound like dropping him for Hadlee is silly.

I'm sure I typed this somewhere just today, I've said it for quite a while. "For me"

This is how I look at it.

6 " locks" for an AT XI

Bradman / Sobers / Marshall

Slightly behind but still certain, though the recent openers vote was a bit shaky

Tendulkar / Gilchrist / Hobbs

The I always say, for me,

McGrath / Richards / Warne

Are also locks, Warne being the more tenuous.

For me Barry Is secure, and I'm liking the idea of Hutton with him (for the moment) and the bowling one is up in the air. As I just said, it's Steyn but can change.

But yes, "for me" Richards, McGrath, Warne and Richards are my current locked in's.

Also for the record, I don't discredit lower order batting or it's relevance, just has to make sense to me. Balance.

 

[subshakerz]

Are also locks, Warne being the more tenuous.

Oxymoron.

 

[Coronis]

Perfectly “acceptable” (by CW standards) ATG XI without most of those locks

Hutton
Gavaskar
Bradman
Lara
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Imran
Hadlee
Wasim
Murali


I truly think only those 3 players are irreplaceable and the other 8 can be chosen from a pool of available options and you’d still have a top quality side.

 

[subshakerz]

Perfectly “acceptable” (by CW standards) ATG XI without most of those locks

Hutton
Gavaskar
Bradman
Lara
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Imran
Hadlee
Wasim
Murali


I truly think only those 3 players are irreplaceable and the other 8 can be chosen from a pool of available options and you’d still have a top quality side.

Bradman, Sobers and Gilly?

 

[Coronis]

Bradman, Sobers and Gilly?

Yeah

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah

Agreed

 

[capt_Luffy]

Bradman, Sobers and Gilly?

Yeah

Can argue for Sangakkara for Gilly, especially if Murali is playing; or Alan Knott.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I can see an argument for Sangakkara (wouldn't be my choice)

But I couldn't justify Knott, and I'm a guy who fetishizes proper keeping more than most

 

[capt_Luffy]

I can see an argument for Sangakkara (wouldn't be my choice)

But I couldn't justify Knott, and I'm a guy who fetishizes proper keeping more than most

I definitely won't prefer Knott, but definitely can see an argument based on primary skill.

 

[subshakerz]

I definitely won't prefer Knott, but definitely can see an argument based on primary skill.

@kyear2 considers Gilly as ATG on keeping skills alone.

 

[kyear2]

Perfectly “acceptable” (by CW standards) ATG XI without most of those locks

Hutton
Gavaskar
Bradman
Lara
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Imran
Hadlee
Wasim
Murali


I truly think only those 3 players are irreplaceable and the other 8 can be chosen from a pool of available options and you’d still have a top quality side.

I see you're trying to be pedantic.

1. By locks I meant by votes here. There's no way in hell Sachin isn't making any all all AT teams here and everyone knows it.

If you want to use locks as in there's no justifiable way to drop them 4.

Bradman
Sobers
Gilchrist
Marshall

In the last vote for the AT XI Marshall was unanimous, Gilchrist wasn't. in the poll that's currently ongoing he has I believe 42 out of 44 votes, one of the two by @shortpitched713

If you want to go best bowlers he makes it, if you want to go bat deep he makes it, you want to go hybrid he makes it.

In the last vote for greatest bowled ever he cleared McGrath easily and almost lapped Hadlee in 3rd.

He's just as much as a lock as Sobers and ahead of Gilchrist.

There's an argument some may use against Gilchrist, if you want the better keeper in Knott as Wisden did.

There's no argument against Marshall not getting one of three bowling spots in an ATG XI

Let's look at the players who made the only 3 amalgamation teams we've seen.

Cricinfo, Wisden and Ours
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Marshall
Warne

So yes @Coronis kindly indicate the argument that Marshall isn't a lock while Gilchrist is...

 

[kyear2]

Agreed

You would... justify it.