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Your ATG team pace bowling trio

Who do you select in your all-time side?

  • Total voters
    54
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
But if I was picking a swag XI (swag is an important factor in cricket, don’t believe it’s not), I’d take

Lillee, Ambrose, Garner
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Burgey said:
Marshall - generally regarded as the best, an opinion I'm sold on. Could swing it, had genuine pace and once Lillee taught him how to bowl a leg cutter, he pretty much could do it all.
McGrath - point of difference with his height and bounce. Averaging 21 while playing for most of the 2000s when decks are regarded as being crazy flat gets you a lot of points imo. Batsmen of that era get marked down because it was easy, he should get marked up because it was hard.
Akram - Went for the left arm option here because I'm looking at how they'll operate together rather than necessarily picking the three best individuals, though he would be in the argument in that case anyway. Express pace, conventional and reverse swing, wicked bouncer and yorker. Just shades Paddles.
Of all others, not just those on this list I think Steyn, Lillee, Davo, Ambrose, Imran, Cummins and Garner are all unlucky. Nearly went with one of the latter two as they're arguably the best first change bowlers of all time. Bumrah could end up in the argument too, but he hasn't played enough tests yet. Terrific bowler though.
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So switched my vote to this as well, for kinda the same reasons (plus Steyn wasn't in contention and I was loudly voted down).

In addition to reading this post and others on a re read, there were two other posts, and two polls that was instructive on arriving at this decision.

Before I get to the posts and the polls, there were also memories from my earlier days. Haynes changing his entire stance just to counter Wasim's swing and angle. Lara going on on about how he was the most difficult of bolwers to face.

Besides the peer ratings, there's also the critic and journalistic ratings. The good gentleman made the Cricinfo and Wisden teams, all two both.

With regards to the posts, there was one from Coronis showing the extended peaks for bowlers, and while he wasn't at the top, he was close enough. There was also a post by Bolo who was talking about how and why he was one of the best old ball bowlers, even in the absence of reverse.

That leads me to the polls. Both by Subz...

One was for the best new ball bowlers, it was business as usual with Marshall and McGrath winning that easily.
The next one was a bit more surprising and was for the best old ball bolwers, and while not a huge vote total it was thoroughly dominated by Wasim.

In my own valuation of Wasim there were similar concerns to most, the low wpm, the less that inspiring s/r, the relatively low percentage of top order wickets and his relatively poor performances against the best teams of his era.

This is countered by his immense peer rating, his ability for conventional and reverse swing, and both ways at that, his critic rating is even higher than his peer one, with him making the two most relevant all time teams.

He's also had a very fragmented and unique career that required acute inspection to discern. His early start, his diagnosed at the end and what can only be described as abysmal cathing support has to be taken into account. I don't think it covers all of the downsides, but it explains a decent bit of it.

Also not saying he's the 3rd best bowler ever, not close, but he's the best with the old ball and would be a unique challenge bowling in tandem with Warne.

I still think Steyn is as worthy as anyone, and his wpm and s/r is just out of this world and a separating factor that none of the others possess.

But for the combination of old and new ball bowling, variations, conventional and reverse swing and just supreme natural ability, and since my guy was soundly rejected, I'll go with Wasim on this one.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
karan_fromthestands said:
Steyn has very less votes weirdly.
Click to expand...
I would have voted for him purely as a bowler.

McGrath, Steyn, then not sure on third between Hadlee, Marshall and Ambrose.

Batting makes the choice more straightforward, with the likes of Imran and Hadlee being automatic picks for me, and Marshall also being a significantly better bat than the rest of the non-allrounder seamers.
 
R

reyrey

U19 Captain
kyear2 said:
With regards to the posts, there was one from Coronis showing the extended peaks for bowlers, and while he wasn't at the top, he was close enough. There was also a post by Bolo who was talking about how and why he was one of the best old ball bowlers, even in the absence of reverse.
Click to expand...
Took you long enough to get there :D Welcome to team Wasim

reyrey said:
That wasn't his peak. It was 10 years of sustained bowling excellence which puts him on par with the other names in the poll.

It's also worth remembering Wasim went from net bowler straight to test bowler and was basically learning his craft on the job. None of the other bowlers had to do this. Also late in his career he was dealing with diabetes. Valid reasons to focus more on what he did during that 10 year period.
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kyear2 said:
Not discrediting your point, but Marshall basically had the same scenario, but only had to perform under those conditions for one tour.

I don't think you should only focus on those 10 years, but it should be a serious consideration.
Click to expand...
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
So switched my vote to this as well, for kinda the same reasons (plus Steyn wasn't in contention and I was loudly voted down).

In addition to reading this post and others on a re read, there were two other posts, and two polls that was instructive on arriving at this decision.

Before I get to the posts and the polls, there were also memories from my earlier days. Haynes changing his entire stance just to counter Wasim's swing and angle. Lara going on on about how he was the most difficult of bolwers to face.

Besides the peer ratings, there's also the critic and journalistic ratings. The good gentleman made the Cricinfo and Wisden teams, all two both.

With regards to the posts, there was one from Coronis showing the extended peaks for bowlers, and while he wasn't at the top, he was close enough. There was also a post by Bolo who was talking about how and why he was one of the best old ball bowlers, even in the absence of reverse.

That leads me to the polls. Both by Subz...

One was for the best new ball bowlers, it was business as usual with Marshall and McGrath winning that easily.
The next one was a bit more surprising and was for the best old ball bolwers, and while not a huge vote total it was thoroughly dominated by Wasim.

In my own valuation of Wasim there were similar concerns to most, the low wpm, the less that inspiring s/r, the relatively low percentage of top order wickets and his relatively poor performances against the best teams of his era.

This is countered by his immense peer rating, his ability for conventional and reverse swing, and both ways at that, his critic rating is even higher than his peer one, with him making the two most relevant all time teams.

He's also had a very fragmented and unique career that required acute inspection to discern. His early start, his diagnosed at the end and what can only be described as abysmal cathing support has to be taken into account. I don't think it covers all of the downsides, but it explains a decent bit of it.

Also not saying he's the 3rd best bowler ever, not close, but he's the best with the old ball and would be a unique challenge bowling in tandem with Warne.

I still think Steyn is as worthy as anyone, and his wpm and s/r is just out of this world and a separating factor that none of the others possess.

But for the combination of old and new ball bowling, variations, conventional and reverse swing and just supreme natural ability, and since my guy was soundly rejected, I'll go with Wasim on this one.
Click to expand...
Nice to have you on team Wasim. And for once, you are able to contextualise stats it seems. You're welcome.
 
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