Your All-time Premier League XI

[Furball]

I think he was a bit overrated at the time tbh. I remember in around 2000 he was voted the greatest United player ever.

Stuff like this is what I'm talking about when I refer to Cantona being over-rated.

I don't think he'd be anything special if he existed now though; he wasn't a France international at the time he was at Utd and he had little impact at the highest level in Europe. The mythology around Cantona is down to his being a fancy foreigner who stood out in a league of cloggers, although there's no doubting his influence on the game in England.

 

[Tom Halsey]

In which case I think we probably near enough agree.

He was a France international for about half of his time with us, though; he was captain of France until the Selhurst Park incident, after which he was never picked again.

The Europe thing is fair but it's actually quite a small amount of games to judge him on owing to a combination of the foreigner rule and his ban which resulted in him missing an entire European campaign (we got knocked out in the first round of the following season's UEFA Cup). He only actually played 16 European games for United, 10 of which were in his final season. His worst failure in Europe was probably a poor performance against Dortmund in the '97 semi (which apparently helped trigger his decision to retire), but even then we got there thanks to thumping a much-fancied Porto side 4-0 with him the best player on the pitch.

 

[BoyBrumby]

CB: Terry
CB: Vidic

Reckon the lack of pace there might cost you a wee bit.

Vidic especially could occasionally be exposed. Torres used to give him all sorts of problems when he was in his pomp for yer Scousers.

 

[Uppercut]

Stuff like this is what I'm talking about when I refer to Cantona being over-rated.

I don't think he'd be anything special if he existed now though; he wasn't a France international at the time he was at Utd and he had little impact at the highest level in Europe. The mythology around Cantona is down to his being a fancy foreigner who stood out in a league of cloggers, although there's no doubting his influence on the game in England.

Yeah this is the opinion I had before I watched a bit more mid-90s football, but I was underestimating how different the game was. The refereeing was so lenient that to be a technical striker you had to also be a tank and a bully, and the pitches were so bad that your first touch had to be next-level. You had to be either Cantona or Bergkamp basically. Most other imports bombed.

Maybe he wouldn't stand out today, but I think most players who stand out now would struggle if transported to Cantona's era.

 

[wpdavid]

Stuff like this is what I'm talking about when I refer to Cantona being over-rated.

I don't think he'd be anything special if he existed now though; he wasn't a France international at the time he was at Utd and he had little impact at the highest level in Europe. The mythology around Cantona is down to his being a fancy foreigner who stood out in a league of cloggers, although there's no doubting his influence on the game in England.

I think your last point's crucial. He may or may not be one of the greatest players to grace the EPL, but his influence on the emergent Man Utd side has been well documented. Probably the single most influential player in the past 30 years.

Not that there have been many players ever who were genuinely influential, I suppose. De Stefano, Cruyff and Beckenbauer spring to mind, but maybe that's it. I suppose the other foreigner who had a huge impact on the English game was Branko Stankovic, but that was as a manger rather than a player. He was in charge of the outstanding Red Star Belgrade side that beat Liverpool home and away in the 1973/4 European Cup, forcing a massive rethink at Anfield about how the game should be played. The rest is history.

 

[sledger]

Robert Pires.

 

[Himannv]

This is my side except I'd have Kompany over Terry because John Terry is a racist and Vincent Kompany is an elite man.

I think Carvalho was actually the better CB in that Chelsea pairing. I'd definitely have Campbell and Vidic ahead of him and I guess Stam and Desailly should theoretically be in the conversation although their absolute best performances came in a different league.

Considering Ferdinand is the other CB, I think Campbell will be a good choice so that you maintain a sweeper+stopper type pairing at the back.

If we're strictly looking at Man City players though, I think Ruben Dias will be right up there if he maintains this sort of quality.

Neville has to be up there with Cantona as the most over-rated Premier League player ever.

Agree about Neville, but the Premier League hasn't had many top RBs to boast about in any case. If it's before the league started then both Armfield and Neal are better and I'd argue that Viv Anderson might have a shout of being rated similarly as well.

Having said that, Neville isn't exactly some mug and he's had some very good games in the 90s. I was watching a few games from back then and he consistently played well and always put in a shift. This is a nice all touch compilation of his game at CB vs Liverpool:

Not too shabby on the whole I think.

 

[wpdavid]

Agree about Neville, but the Premier League hasn't had many top RBs to boast about in any case. If it's before the league started then both Armfield and Neal are better and I'd argue that Viv Anderson might have a shout of being rated similarly as well.

Armfield's decent shout, but not Neal. Someone wrote a comparison with Thora Hird, on the basis that Dame Thora could play behind that Liverpool midfield and not be exposed. Ditto Gary Stevens at Everton, a few years later. Neal looked OK going forward for Liverpool, but defensively he was massively protected by the guys in front of him. There were times when he was absolutely dreadful for England, when he didn't have that sort of protection. The 1980 Euros are the obvious example, but there are others too. Anderson's a decent shout actually, and I always rated him ahead of Neal. One of the weird things for people of my generation is seeing England spoilt for choice with decent right backs, which wasn't the case for ages. Until recently, our left backs were generally better.

 

[Days of Grace]

I never watched Cantona play. Was he usually played as a no.10 behind a striker or could he also play as an attacking midfielder or a winger?

 

[wpdavid]

I never watched Cantona play. Was he usually played as a no.10 behind a striker or could he also play as an attacking midfielder or a winger?

Number 10 behind a striker. Never a winger.

 

[Furball]

I think Carvalho was actually the better CB in that Chelsea pairing.

He wasn't the better Premier League player though.

 

[Himannv]

He wasn't the better Premier League player though.

It depends on how much we'd value longevity. If we're considering a 3 year peak or something like that, I'd take Carvalho.

If I were to pair him up with someone, I'd pick the likes of Terry or Vidic over Ferdinand though. He needs a more physical partner to really shine.

 

[Himannv]

Armfield's decent shout, but not Neal. Someone wrote a comparison with Thora Hird, on the basis that Dame Thora could play behind that Liverpool midfield and not be exposed. Ditto Gary Stevens at Everton, a few years later. Neal looked OK going forward for Liverpool, but defensively he was massively protected by the guys in front of him. There were times when he was absolutely dreadful for England, when he didn't have that sort of protection. The 1980 Euros are the obvious example, but there are others too. Anderson's a decent shout actually, and I always rated him ahead of Neal. One of the weird things for people of my generation is seeing England spoilt for choice with decent right backs, which wasn't the case for ages. Until recently, our left backs were generally better.

I always felt Neal was solid enough defensively but I'm basing that on Liverpool games I watched where I mostly focused on other players.

Agree about LBs - I rate Sansom in particular quite highly.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Armfield's decent shout, but not Neal. Someone wrote a comparison with Thora Hird, on the basis that Dame Thora could play behind that Liverpool midfield and not be exposed. Ditto Gary Stevens at Everton, a few years later. Neal looked OK going forward for Liverpool, but defensively he was massively protected by the guys in front of him. There were times when he was absolutely dreadful for England, when he didn't have that sort of protection. The 1980 Euros are the obvious example, but there are others too. Anderson's a decent shout actually, and I always rated him ahead of Neal. One of the weird things for people of my generation is seeing England spoilt for choice with decent right backs, which wasn't the case for ages. Until recently, our left backs were generally better.

I think John Gidman was the best but he was always getting serious injuries.

 

[DriveClub]

I think Trent for his assists and the way he runs the game from right back is already there.

But he's a massive liability defensively, makes so many defensive errors

 

[Furball]

But he's a massive liability defensively, makes so many defensive errors

Citation needed.

 

[GIMH]

Joe Hart

Ian Nolan
Ben Gibson
John McGreal
Aaron Creswell

Ryan Taylor
Jason Koumas
Jay Spearing
Alan Mahon

James Vaughan
David Kelly

 

[DriveClub]

Citation needed.

He just lobbed the ball to benteke I think last game. Liverpool were lucky benteke missed an easy 1 on 1

 

[GIMH]

In which case I think we probably near enough agree.

He was a France international for about half of his time with us, though; he was captain of France until the Selhurst Park incident, after which he was never picked again.

The Europe thing is fair but it's actually quite a small amount of games to judge him on owing to a combination of the foreigner rule and his ban which resulted in him missing an entire European campaign (we got knocked out in the first round of the following season's UEFA Cup). He only actually played 16 European games for United, 10 of which were in his final season. His worst failure in Europe was probably a poor performance against Dortmund in the '97 semi (which apparently helped trigger his decision to retire), but even then we got there thanks to thumping a much-fancied Porto side 4-0 with him the best player on the pitch.

That four foreigner rule used to really hit United in Europe. Obviously it applied in the league too but the difference being in domestic games that British players didn't count as foreign whereas in Europe they did. Given mainstays of Cantona's early years at United were the likes of Hughes and Irwin, and obviously you had Schmeichel in goal, its easy to see why the likes of Beckham and Scholes got blooded early

 

[Uppercut]

But he's a massive liability defensively, makes so many defensive errors

Citation needed.

He's not exactly rock solid but I've seen much worse.

The stranger thing about the England selection debate is how as soon as people start talking about Trent, Reece James and Kyle Walker are suddenly thought of as unbreakable defensive monsters. In any other context the consensus is that they're physically dominant but error-prone.