Would you play Keith Miller in your Australia ATG XI?

[Gob]

Trumper? Really?

I get that he was a pioneer in the sense of Grace but there were many others who played in a more competitive era when the game was more developed and achieved more

Don't want to side track the original question though and its a no from me

Hayden
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Marsh
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lillee
McGrath

 

[kyear2]

@kyear2 do you think Simpson is necessary if you don't have Miller I assume?

He's necessary regardless.

 

[kyear2]

With Don at 3 and Gilly at 7, you think Miller at 6 is a big compromise.

Yes, very much so.

 

[kyear2]

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Warne
Cummins
McGrath

Strong batting line up, with good depth down to 10. Lethal bowling attack with an experienced 3rd seamer and 3 guys to rotate for the 5th bowling slot. Brilliant cordon through to gully. Border leads.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Trumper? Really?

I get that he was a pioneer in the sense of Grace but there were many others who played in a more competitive era when the game was more developed and achieved more

Don't want to side track the original question though and its a no from me

Hayden
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Marsh
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lillee
McGrath

Marsh? Plz dont say mitch marsh

 

[Betterpolo]

Must be a toughie for some Aussies as Miller is not only much loved but appears to border on being an iconic figure. But I wouldn't pick him unless he's your 6th best batter or 3rd best seamer and I don't think he is. Besides, all-rounders aren't really the Aussie way

Interesting comments about the durability of some of the great Australian quicks, it's very true of course and has helped them immeasurably over the years. I remember in one of the Tony Greig biogs him bemoaning the physical fragility of Bob Willis compared to some of the Aussies.

 

[kyear2]

Must be a toughie for some Aussies as Miller is not only much loved but appears to border on being an iconic figure. But I wouldn't pick him unless he's your 6th best batter or 3rd best seamer and I don't think he is. Besides, all-rounders aren't really the Aussie way

Interesting comments about the durability of some of the great Australian quicks, it's very true of course and has helped them immeasurably over the years. I remember in one of the Tony Greig biogs him bemoaning the physical fragility of Bob Willis compared to some of the Aussies.

Miller is an ATG, but he can't command a place based on his batting or bowling alone.

So to include him would require a sacrifice of one or the other

 

[subshakerz]

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Border
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Warne
Cummins
McGrath

Strong batting line up, with good depth down to 10. Lethal bowling attack with an experienced 3rd seamer and 3 guys to rotate for the 5th bowling slot. Brilliant cordon through to gully. Border leads.

For me, dropping Lillee in an Aussie ATG Xi is a redline. Lillee and McGrath are literally the perfect opening bowling combo.

Please tell me why Miller can't handle a third seamer spot based on WPM but Lindwall can handle being an opening bowler while Lillee has a 5WPM.

Trumper/Morris
Simpson
Don
Smith
Chappell
Border
Miller
Gilly
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

 

[Qlder]

Just want to point out to all the people saying Miller is not good enough to be 3rd seamer, he was actually an opening bowler sharing the new ball with Lindwall

In 51 tests both played together, Lindwall bowled 120 balls per innings, while Miller bowled 110 balls

 

[Prince EWS]

Absolute no-brainer to select him at 6 with Bradman at Gilchrist at 3 and 7 IMO.

 

[ataraxia]

Absolute no-brainer to select him at 6 with Bradman at Gilchrist at 3 and 7 IMO.

Especially for people who insist on selecting a liability of a bowler at #10.

 

[subshakerz]

Absolute no-brainer to select him at 6 with Bradman at Gilchrist at 3 and 7 IMO.

Only if you feel you need 5 bowlers, which you don't.

I don't see the issue with having Miller at 7 and Gilly at 8.

 

[Qlder]

Miller is an ATG, but he can't command a place based on his batting or bowling alone.

So to include him would require a sacrifice of one or the other

This opinion can only be based on stats alone. Miller always batted #5 or higher and opened the bowling. To have both those skills in one player is definitely not sacrificing anything, in fact quite the opposite.

Funny that the 1948 'Invincables' is arguably one of the best teams of all time. Miller batted #4 behind Bradman and opened the bowling in that great team

 

[kyear2]

For me, dropping Lillee in an Aussie ATG Xi is a redline. Lillee and McGrath are literally the perfect opening bowling combo.

Please tell me why Miller can't handle a third seamer spot based on WPM but Lindwall can handle being an opening bowler while Lillee has a 5WPM.

Trumper/Morris
Simpson
Don
Smith
Chappell
Border
Miller
Gilly
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Good point on Lindwall.

But to answer your question re Miller?

He didn't like to bowl, lol.

Not to add he primarily used the new ball in shorter bursts. Here he's not getting that.

Oh, plus I think the more he bowlers, the lower his batting average was.

 

[kyear2]

Absolute no-brainer to select him at 6 with Bradman at Gilchrist at 3 and 7 IMO.

And facing the attacks of SA in the semis or the WI in the finals with a batsman short isn't a great idea.

Simpson / Border / Chappell can share 5th bowler duties.

 

[Prince EWS]

And facing the attacks of SA in the semis or the WI in the finals with a batsman short isn't a great idea.

I don't think it's really a batsman short when you consider how much better than average the 3 and 7 will be.

Simpson / Border / Chappell can share 5th bowler duties.

This seems far more like a bowler short. It's basically just an unacceptable standard of fifth bowling to me tbh.

 

[subshakerz]

This opinion can only be based on stats alone. Miller always batted #5 or higher and opened the bowling. To have both those skills in one player is definitely not sacrificing anything, in fact quite the opposite.

Funny that the 1948 'Invincables' is arguably one of the best teams of all time. Miller batted #4 behind Bradman and opened the bowling in that great team

Millers batting isn't good enough to bat in the top 6 of an Aussie ATG XI.

But his bowling is good enough to be a third seamer.

 

[Line and Length]

And facing the attacks of SA in the semis or the WI in the finals with a batsman short isn't a great idea.

Simpson / Border / Chappell can share 5th bowler duties.

A downgrade to any attack. Either Chappell or Border make way for Miller.

My preference:

Simpson
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
Ponting (or Border)
Miller
Gilchrist
Davidson (left arm variety)
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

 

[subshakerz]

Good point on Lindwall.

But to answer your question re Miller?

He didn't like to bowl, lol.

Not to add he primarily used the new ball in shorter bursts. Here he's not getting that.

Oh, plus I think the more he bowlers, the lower his batting average was.

Yeah but Miller here is going to be used as a third seamer likely in shorter bursts. McGrath, Lillee and Warne all capable of marathon spells if needed. Miller is more of the pincer bowling then.

As for his batting, he is batting at 7 in my lineup so not much pressure.

 

[kyear2]

This opinion can only be based on stats alone. Miller always batted #5 or higher and opened the bowling. To have both those skills in one player is definitely not sacrificing anything, in fact quite the opposite.

Funny that the 1948 'Invincables' is arguably one of the best teams of all time. Miller batted #4 behind Bradman and opened the bowling in that great team

He batted at 5, but how did he do there.

Most of his hundreds came in one series in the WI where we rightfully kill Weeks and Walcott for being f/t bullies.

I also don't doubt his ability as an opening bowler, but Lindwall was also better there.

And while the '48 team was a great one, it did dominate an understandably weakened England squad reeling from the war.

Doing this off the top of my head so may get some of the names wrong. But think the

'84 WI / '02 Australia / '08 SA, one of the early England '50's squads and possibly the '63 Windies were just as good and a couple better?

But all of that aside, I just prefer Border, he's a fighter at the bottom of the order who was well battle tested.