Would this be the greatest test series win of all time if NZ win?

[subshakerz]

Like in 2001

Yes that counts and 2004.

 

[ma1978]

Yes that counts and 2004.

So by your logic an ATG Aus side couldn’t win in India against a less successful version of the Kohli team

 

[subshakerz]

So by your logic an ATG Aus side couldn’t win in India against a less successful version of the Kohli team

They did, unambiguously, in 2004. They didn't in 2001 but it required once in a generation performances to just get them over the line.

Using 2001 as definitive evidence as Australia will lose is about as convincing to use WI drawing against Aus in 1999 thanks to Lara having the greatest series of all time as definitive evidence that Aus would lose against the 80s WI.

We can debate this to death, but one series loss and one series win in India isn't the evidence of Australia being unable to beat Kohlis India.

 

[centurymaker]

Of all the teams to lose a test series to at home, New Zealand would be the most desired team to lose one to, along with West Indies.

Losing at home was pretty much overdue for India, as India had been "averting" it since 2017-

1. Australia had been very very close to beating India in the 2017 BGT. India had come back from behind to narrowly win the 2nd Test in Bangalore and highly competitive 4th Test in Dharmashala.
2. Australia came very close in 2023 as well. One bad session in the 2nd Test in Delhi derailed their whole campaign, otherwise they were on track to win at least 2 Tests and possibly the series.
3. England this year were very close to winning multiple tests. Should have won the 4th Test in Ranchi and gone into the final test with series at 2-2.

So India has been far from invincible at home in the last couple of years in particular. So it's a shock but not a massive shock. Sooner or later, Aus or Eng or another team was going to get it done. Winning 18 series on the bounce at home, you are bound to have had luck go your way and this series luck has gone the other way. It can happen. Batting first in seaming conditions in Bangalore and bowling first on a turner in Pune to go with opposition playing to their potential and you playing well below and making all kinds of errors.

Glad it didn't happen against Eng or Aus. Last team any Indian fan would have wanted to lose at home to would be England or Australia. Losing to England means losing to a big 3 team, plus you would hear about it for 10-20 years at least. Losing to Australia is just as painful as you are losing to your biggest cricketing rival of the 21st century.

 

[centurymaker]

Least desirable teams to lose at home(excl Pak)-

1. England
2. Australia

3. Bangladesh
4. Sri Lanka
5. South Africa

6. New Zealand
7. West Indies

No Indian fan would ever want to lose to Ban or SL at home. Losing to South Africa would be quite painful as well given India has never won in SA, while SA have won once in India already.

 

[RMBolton]

I think that leaves South Africa as our "final frontier" now. Apparently an all format tour of South Africa is planned for the next FTP cycle, but that's a while away, & by then we'll likely be fielding a side with no experience in South African conditions, having not gone there for a decade or more.

 

[Coronis]

btw is this one of the worst series of all time by a bowler of Ashwin’s calibre?

3 tests 9 wickets @ 41.22

Not only that but outbowled by no less than 4 other spinners, 2 of whom played 2 and 1 tests respectively. Also outbowled by Kuldeep in the first test. So arguably outbowled by 5 other spinners.

And then there’s Bumrah too having such a pathetic series.

 

[centurymaker]

Bumrah was ok in the 1st test, while the 2nd Test had nothing for seamers. Ashwin was mostly crap though. It might be end of the road for him & might not get another home series.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

btw is this one of the worst series of all time by a bowler of Ashwin’s calibre?

3 tests 9 wickets @ 41.22

Not only that but outbowled by no less than 4 other spinners, 2 of whom played 2 and 1 tests respectively. Also outbowled by Kuldeep in the first test. So arguably outbowled by 5 other spinners.

If Kuldeep is included he was outbowled by SIX other spinners

Ajaz
Santner
Phillips
Washington
Jadeja
Kuldeep


Not outbowled by Sodhi and Rachin

 

[Daemon]

btw is this one of the worst series of all time by a bowler of Ashwin’s calibre?

3 tests 9 wickets @ 41.22

Not only that but outbowled by no less than 4 other spinners, 2 of whom played 2 and 1 tests respectively. Also outbowled by Kuldeep in the first test. So arguably outbowled by 5 other spinners.

And then there’s Bumrah too having such a pathetic series.

Yeah those are very very poor numbers for the conditions on offer.

 

[GIMH]

btw is this one of the worst series of all time by a bowler of Ashwin’s calibre?

3 tests 9 wickets @ 41.22

Not only that but outbowled by no less than 4 other spinners, 2 of whom played 2 and 1 tests respectively. Also outbowled by Kuldeep in the first test. So arguably outbowled by 5 other spinners.

And then there’s Bumrah too having such a pathetic series.

Jimmy’s 2023 Ashes I guess

 

[SteveNZ]

btw is this one of the worst series of all time by a bowler of Ashwin’s calibre?

3 tests 9 wickets @ 41.22

Not only that but outbowled by no less than 4 other spinners, 2 of whom played 2 and 1 tests respectively. Also outbowled by Kuldeep in the first test. So arguably outbowled by 5 other spinners.

And then there’s Bumrah too having such a pathetic series.

In helpful conditions, you'd have to say it's up there. Our batting order had a multitude of LHers - Conway, Latham, Rachin, Santner, Patel for the first two Tests - yet he managed 6 wickets in four innings in those Tests.

And scored runs at an average of 8.

 

[Hungry Llama]

Yes the snoozers are the GOAT for now. they deserve the accolades.

 

[Arachnodouche]

It might be end of the road for him & might not get another home series.

Age is the only factor working against him to be fair. If he was an year or two younger you'd think he's earned the "right" to a crap series. But yeah he'll be 39+ come the next home game and he's not going to be cutting any less a sorry figure in the field than he already is.

 

[centurymaker]

I don't expect anything more than a farewell match/series at home.

 

[Bahnz]

In helpful conditions, you'd have to say it's up there. Our batting order had a multitude of LHers - Conway, Latham, Rachin, Santner, Patel for the first two Tests - yet he managed 6 wickets in four innings in those Tests.

And scored runs at an average of 8.

Yeah, for the first time that I've seen (in home tests at least), Ashwin really looked like a proper tailender, never had too many concerns that he would last long. At 38 I guess that's to be expected to a certain extent.

 

[centurymaker]

The fact that India brought Sundar into the XI right after the first game - showed that they didn't have the same confidence in Ashwin anymore, as they shored up the side with another off-spinner (for his bowling as well as batting).

It was unthinkable to play another off-spinner in presence of the great Ashwin. It tells you that even the management saw some signs of decline and looked to address it. And I wouldn't be surprised if Ashwin gets zero tests in Australia. Jadeja would be 1st choice for now, followed closely by Sundar, who I see displacing Jadeja during the tour.

 

[jcas0167]

And then you've got the folks who just have Australia on a pedestal. I've met a few of them, who don't rate the current generation at all because of their failures against Australia. They legit believe Fleming &co are better than this lot - now, depriving that Australian team even a single win in a home series is pretty badass, but still.
Hopefully, this win silenced them a little (ironically, Pat Cummins-style).

The Black Caps 1999-2003 or so with peak Cairns and then emergence of Bond were pretty good although that 2001 series they were bailed out by rain in the 2nd test. First test was also rain affected.