World Class list

[honestbharani]

Plus, going for runs is just one part of it. One can easily see how dangerous Steyn can be in test matches based on how he bowls in ODIs. He might bowl a lot of pitched up stuff that get tonked but the same stuff will get you wickets in tests, as long as you have the ability to get it to swing at decent to good pace...

 

[smash84]

Against top-eight ODI teams (ie. excluding Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland and "Asia XI"), here are Steyn's figures:

Average: 34.63
R.P.O.: 5.55
Strike: 37.40

The strike rate is okay but hardly good enough to make up for the fact that he goes at over 5.55 runs per over, which is crap but anyone's standards. That he averages 34 is a good reflection of how he's bowled so far in ODI career; he's been ****. That doesn't mean he won't get better but he's not been at all good so far. Not only just by his standards, but by anyone's.

Thanks for showing how bad he really is.

Mohammad Sami | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

LOL.......just going by plain numbers here is Sami's ODI record and his average, strike rate, and economy rate are all better than Steyn........

 

[GIMH]

The bottom line is that Tremlett's ODI performances shouldn't be used as an indicator of whether he is world-class in Tests, just as I shouldn't label Eoin Morgan a matchwinning Test batsman...

 

[social]

The bottom line is that Tremlett's ODI performances shouldn't be used as an indicator of whether he is world-class in Tests, just as I shouldn't label Eoin Morgan a matchwinning Test batsman...

Nor should 6 tests and tbf, many people have done exactly that with Morgan

 

[Maximus0723]

The bottom line is that Tremlett's ODI performances shouldn't be used as an indicator of whether he is world-class in Tests, just as I shouldn't label Eoin Morgan a matchwinning Test batsman...

that sig is gfg,
the first one.

 

[GIMH]

Nor should 6 tests and tbf, many people have done exactly that with Morgan

Have they? Jury very much still out IMO.

Unless you meant Tremlett.

 

[Furball]

As for tests and one-dayers being soooooooooooo different - that's a crock

Bad bowling gets punished in either format

Rubbish.

If you stick the ball on a good length in the latter stages of an ODI, then you're basically just inviting the batsman to see if he can pick out his mate in the crowd. Bad bowling gets punished in all 3 formats, it's the definition of "good" bowling that is vastly different.

What confuses me about Steyn's ODI record is that he's a gun T20 bowler.

 

[smash84]

Rubbish.

If you stick the ball on a good length in the latter stages of an ODI, then you're basically just inviting the batsman to see if he can pick out his mate in the crowd. Bad bowling gets punished in all 3 formats, it's the definition of "good" bowling that is vastly different.

What confuses me about Steyn's ODI record is that he's a gun T20 bowler.

true

 

[zaremba]

As for tests and one-dayers being soooooooooooo different - that's a crock

Bad bowling gets punished in either format

Mike Yardy says nnnnrrrrggghhhh (or whatever he says when he delivers his horrible effective-in-limited-overs-but-crap-in-FC darts)

 

[Blaze 18]

Ajit Agarkar, Mohammad Sami, Michael Bevan, etc. Tests are certainly very different from ODIs, there is no question about that.

 

[TumTum]

What confuses me about Steyn's ODI record is that he's a gun T20 bowler.

In T20's batsman probably try too hard to hit him and they fail. Where in ODI's they can be more sensible about it and use his pace.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Mike Yardy says nnnnrrrrggghhhh (or whatever he says when he delivers his horrible effective-in-limited-overs-but-crap-in-FC darts)

He might look ineffective, but that's different from bowling 3 or 4 bad balls an over, Yardy doesn't do that tbh, and he does mix up his pace well.

 

[zaremba]

He might look ineffective, but that's different from bowling 3 or 4 bad balls an over, Yardy doesn't do that tbh, and he does mix up his pace well.

He's a ridiculously effective limited overs bowler, and does have a good change of pace. But he has a FC bowling average of 77...

 

[MW1304]

I know Tremlett hasn't looked too great in his few ODIs but he has a more than reasonable List A record:

Average: 27.43 Econ: 4.87 SR: 33.7

No 5 fers isn't very good but still don't think we can call him tripe till we've tried him out for a while. Seems a little harsh to say he's ****e already.

 

[Howe_zat]

I know Tremlett hasn't looked too great in his few ODIs but he has a more than reasonable List A record:

Average: 27.43 Econ: 4.87 SR: 33.7

No 5 fers isn't very good but still don't think we can call him tripe till we've tried him out for a while. Seems a little harsh to say he's ****e already.

Don't think anyon'es saying he's ****e. Just that he's not as good as in Tests, and (by my reckoning) isn't part of England's best ODI attack.

 

[MW1304]

If you don't rate Tremlett that's fine because he's barely played but judging him based on one day cricket is dire.

Yeah I managed to read that and think he was calling Tremlett dire for whatever reason.

Still getting the hang of this eyesite thing.

 

[morgieb]

Ajit Agarkar, Mohammad Sami, Michael Bevan, etc. Tests are certainly very different from ODIs, there is no question about that.

Yeah, Sami's merely poor rather than abysmal, Agarkar was decent for some time, Bevan's a great.

Add Harris, Fairbrother, Bracken, etc.

 

[social]

Rubbish.

If you stick the ball on a good length in the latter stages of an ODI, then you're basically just inviting the batsman to see if he can pick out his mate in the crowd. Bad bowling gets punished in all 3 formats, it's the definition of "good" bowling that is vastly different.

What confuses me about Steyn's ODI record is that he's a gun T20 bowler.

And how many quality TEST quick bowlers in history have failed to adapt to ODIs?

 

[stephen]

The way that I define "World class" is basically this:

If a player would get into all bar two or three sides in the world then they are world class.

During Australia's period of dominance there were times where you had McGrath, Warne, Gillespie and Lee all in the same team and all world class bowlers (at the time). That didn't stop other bowlers being world class at the time (Murali and Akhtar for example). Similarly, it would be hard to see any batsman coming into a batting order of Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Martyn and Gilchrist. That didn't mean someone like Ganguly or Prince was not world class, even though they would arguably not have made the Aussie side at the time.

I'd say that in most cases three or so batsmen and two bowlers might be considered world class from each team, with 3-4 keepers also being world class at any one time.

What makes a truly Great team is when you have 4-5 world class batsmen, a world class keeper and 3 world class bowlers in the same side. Australia had this between 95 and 07 and the WIndies had this between aorund 75 and 95.

 

[Teja.]

Based on the 'Would make every side in the world' criteria:

Openers

Gayle
Warner
Cook
Dhawan

I realize there should be more strictly following the criteria but I really can't think of any good enough to beat incumbency. Any names?

Middle Order

Clarke
Sangakkara, AD Matthews, Jayawardene
de Villiers, Amla
Chanderpaul, Bravo (?)
Taylor, Williamson
Khan, Misbah
Kohli, Pujara

Using the criteria though, what teams right now wouldn't pick say, Rahane if they're available? Would that suddenly make him world class in a time of all teams having weak links in batting?

Pacers

Steyn, Philander, Morkel
Anderson, Broad
Southee, Boult
Johnson, Harris, Siddle, Pattinson, Starc
Junaid
Roach

Spinners

Ajmal
Herath
Shakib (?)

The criteria is pretty unfair to someone like Ashwin though because he manages to be a great fit for the Indian team and one of the most improtant members of the side but unless he proves himself in different conditions, I wouldn't comfortable picking him as a selector of another country. Lyon is good but will India pick him with it's current Ashwin + Jadeja strat? Plus on bowling alone, I'd almost lean towards Ojha tbh.

Keepers

de Villiers


Doing this at 3 am so I obviously might have missed someone.