stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No, Watson most certainly was not. Maybe he was a better overall package but Hayden was definitely a better bat.
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Wisden's Greatest ODI Players of each decade
- Thread starter Pap Finn Keighl
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TheJediBrah
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Hayden was better at nearly drowning himself at sea
Gob
International Coach
Haha this is really bad
Gob
International Coach
As I said, probably in another thread, the attack was based on covering all the basis not necessarily selecting the top 3 bowlers. I have Wasim and McGrath who are brilliant with the new ball and I'd want them, McGrath in particular to bowl most of their overs upfront. Malinga was the best death bowler there was so he will come in after 25 overs and bowl out at the death with Wasim. Harris was a joke but I have Flintoff who is as good as a specialist bowler so there won't be any drop in quality
If Lee plays he has to bowl with the new ball so will be in ahead of McGrath which I definitely considered. Also Warne's performances in big games gets the nod over Saqlain
Burgey
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Pollock another who's chronically over rated across all formats as a bowler, and in ODIs, as a cricketer.
Gob
International Coach
Watto was the better cook though
Re Matt the bat, as a someone who pick him to partner Tendulkar in GOAT side, my memories of Hayden is mostly centric around 2007 world cup. 659 runs at 73 while striking at 101 was his record from that tournament but more than that it was the manner in which he did that really stood out for me. He didn't at any point looked like he was getting out while scoring runs at a Gilchrist/Jayasuria rate. His hundred of 68 balls vs RSA who were making a big fuss at the time over replacing Australia at the top of the ICC ratings was particularly memorable for how he walked all over Shaun Pollock.
Any who Hayden averaged 54 at a strike rate of 86 in his last two years with over 2k runs so it's not travesty to consider him in these discussions. IMO he was far better than Jayasuriya and better than Watson. Rohit was from a different era but Had Hayden played the same amount of games as Rohit at the same time frame, I'm sure he'd have a very similar record
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Gob
International Coach
Nah he was great. Think he was either number 1 or 2 for six or seven straight years in the ratings and that period overlaps McGrath and his econ was also better than McGrath.
Only reason I pick McGrath over Pollock is McGrath's insane record in world cups
_00_deathscar
International Regular
I was never worried McGrath would either, and was wondering why our batsmen didn’t just hit him back over his trundling medium fast paced head.
And yet he did.
TheJediBrah
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Pollock is underrated as a batsman, but overrated massively as a bowler
CodeOfWisden
U19 Cricketer
Hayden is nowhere near Ganguly as an odi opener let alone Rohit Sharma.
Actually Mark Waugh was easily better than Hayden
Actually Mark Waugh was easily better than Hayden
CodeOfWisden
U19 Cricketer
Also Saqlain and Murali definitely ahead of Warne, i don't want a spinner in my side who was never able to perform against the best players of spin also his stats are way inferior to Saqlain and Murali.
OverratedSanity
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Would take all of Mark Waugh, Gilchrist, Watson, Warner over Hayden as ODI batsmen comfortably. Hayden had one incredible world cup but otherwise his career was pretty unspectacular. Waugh had pretty much the same strike rate despite most of his career being in a slower scoring era.
CodeOfWisden
U19 Cricketer
I don't get this, just because some ordinary player had a good world cup (which is just a tourney where some players can be out of form and others in a purple patch) how does that justify putting them in an ATG team lol. It's not like we are making a world cup eleven on something.
Also, Gambhir and Sehwag were better than Hayden in odis
OverratedSanity
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Sehwag's pretty overrated imo. Similar to Hayden would barely even make the top 5 openers from his own country.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
TBH, the 1999 WC messed things up. He had a 5fer that semi and there is no saying how good things would have gone had they won it. And the only reason I would pick Pollock over Mcgrath is because if I have Wasim and Garner/Ambrose already in the side, Pollock makes more sense as the 3rd seamer/ #8 batsman. Balance in Limited Overs cricket is always key. If I am simply picking the 6 best batsman, best wicket keeper and 4 best bowlers, then he wont make it.
Burgey
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That's all fine, I'm just saying I think he's over rated as a bowler and there's probably others I'd run with as an allrounder too. TBH I get surprised when he's even mentioned in these discussions. I can sort of get Kluesener who at least was an effective slogger for a couple of years before fizzing out and scored at a crazy rate doing it. Pollock I just don't get in this discussion, but each to their own I suppose.
Burgey
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It's because the WC is the only time when ODIs actually matter (not that I'd have Hayden near an AT ODI side, fwiw). Bilateral ODI series mean nothing. They aren't like test series, they carry little to no kudos when you look back on records. If Harby had a gun ODI series vs Oz would anyone give a **** like they rightly do about his 2001 B-G Series? Of course not.
Gob
International Coach
Same can be said about Lance Klusener though. I think it eventually comes down to what areas we value when we rate players. I personally give more importance to how players perform at their peak and big tournaments over longevity and it wasn't just that world cup Hayden's run started in the VB series leading up to that world cup and continued for 18 months and it was probably the best opening batting I've seen albeit for a relatively short period. I always tend to assume that we are selecting these GOAT teams to play a similarly strong team and we get to pick players at certain points of their careers
I think this was the problem for most Australian players from that generation. They only got to play when they were at their absolute peaks due to the competition for places which is great for the team but lose out on the longevity aspect compared to other players. I mean imagine the amount of runs the likes of Hayden, Martyn, Lehmann, Hussey etc would have made had they played for a lesser team.