Will West Indies ever become as good as they were?

[WindieWeathers]

How does this matter in the slightest? Ashwin can't criticise a behaviour unless no other Indian does it? Why does his nationality matter at all?

Plus, Ojha wasn't playing international cricket when Ashwin aired his greivance; Ajmal and Narine were. This isn't part of some "poor little Windies" narrative; literally everything you have said in this thread is wrong, irrelevant or uselessly nationalistic.

What? We played against Ojha when Kraigg Brathwaite was 18 HERE ...that's three years ago. Ashwin said that stuff this year HERE . Infact Narine made his debut DURING that tour Brathwaite played in HERE . So you've got that totally wrong Dan and hopefully you'll apologise for the harsh, judgemental comments you aimed at me in bold there...

Bottom line is Ojha has been playing in long sleeves even BEFORE Narine made his debut..so why didn't Ashwin talk about it then? for me he's a hypocrite for not doing so...that's just my opinion and it has nothing to do with "nationality" as i'm just stating the facts..fullstop.

 

[Esperance]

Things that are not good:

Ishant Sharma
Holocaust
Slave Trade
West Indies Cricket

 

[Bahnz]

What? We played against Ojha when Kraigg Brathwaite was 18 HERE ...that's three years ago. Ashwin said that stuff this year HERE . Infact Narine made his debut DURING that tour Brathwaite played in HERE . So you've got that totally wrong Dan and hopefully you'll apologise for the harsh, judgemental comments you aimed at me in bold there...

Bottom line is Ojha has been playing in long sleeves even BEFORE Narine made his debut..so why didn't Ashwin talk about it then? for me he's a hypocrite for not doing so...that's just my opinion and it has nothing to do with "nationality" as i'm just stating the facts..fullstop.

He wasn't wrong, he was saying that Ohja was out of the frame for the national side - he hadn't played a game since late 2013.

Even if you're right, and Ashwin deliberately refrained from commenting on this issue to protect his then Indian team mates (and I don't think that that's the case for a second) you still haven't dealt with Dan's first point - just because other Indian players may be guilty of similar trickery, that in no way invalidates Ashwin's criticism of players like Narine and Ajmal.

 

[Athlai]

He wasn't wrong, he was saying that Ohja was out of the frame for the national side - he hadn't played a game since late 2013.

Even if you're right, and Ashwin deliberately refrained from commenting on this issue to protect his then Indian team mates (and I don't think that that's the case for a second) you still haven't dealt with Dan's first point - just because other Indian players may be guilty of similar trickery, that in no way invalidates Ashwin's criticism of players like Narine and Ajmal.

Inb4 nationalistic reason to refute Bahnz.

 

[harsh.ag]

WW, would you agree that Narine has a higher chance of being over the 15 degree line than Ojha? If no, please explain why, or just leave it alone. If yes, then do you now take Ashwin's comments in a different light?

 

[DingDong]

WW is winning all the arguments pretty easily atm. the rest of the posters on this thread have been woeful.

 

[WindieWeathers]

He wasn't wrong, he was saying that Ohja was out of the frame for the national side - he hadn't played a game since late 2013.

Even if you're right, and Ashwin deliberately refrained from commenting on this issue to protect his then Indian team mates (and I don't think that that's the case for a second) you still haven't dealt with Dan's first point - just because other Indian players may be guilty of similar trickery, that in no way invalidates Ashwin's criticism of players like Narine and Ajmal.

Feeble argument imo. Ohja played against us months before Ashwin made them comments HERE ...so he still had the chance to address his teammate.

But like i said players have worn long sleeves for years..So now Ashwin has complained about it we'll see if Ojha is still wearing sleeves when we go to india next month .

 

[WindieWeathers]

WW is winning all the arguments pretty easily atm. the rest of the posters on this thread have been woeful.

Cheers...trust me i'm not looking for any "arguments" either. I just asked why Ashwin didn't address Singh and Ojha before if he really does have an issue with Narine? that's all...no big deal.

It's been a good debate and that's what this place is about.

 

[DingDong]

Cheers...trust me i'm not looking for any "arguments" either. I just asked why Ashwin didn't address Singh and Ojha before if he really does have an issue with Narine? that's all...no big deal.

It's been a good debate and that's what this place is about.

keep fighting the good fight mate i'm sure i am not the only one who u've won over.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Should call out Swann as well. Moeen as well come to think of it. Who else bowls in long sleeves?

 

[Adders]

Michael Clarke.

 

[cnerd123]

It's been a good debate.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I want to be in team DingDong if i'm accepted

 

[Dan]

Feeble argument imo. Ohja played against us months before Ashwin made them comments HERE ...so he still had the chance to address his teammate.

But like i said players have worn long sleeves for years..So now Ashwin has complained about it we'll see if Ojha is still wearing sleeves when we go to india next month .

1. Ojha probably won't play anyway; they'll go with Ashwin and Jadeja. Which is stupid because Ojha is a far better spinner than Jadeja anyway.

2. Ojha wearing long sleeves in no way invalidates Ashwin's argument that long sleeves gives spinners an advantage. If anything, Ojha should be wearing long sleeves if so -- what kind of idiot bowler would give up something that legally gives them an advantage (insofar as it can cover up illegal activity, to an extent)?

Ashwin is not responsible for what the other members of his team do; he's responsible for what he does. Sharing a dressing room with Ojha or Harbhajan gives him no right whatsoever to to tell them not to wear long sleeves because he feels like making a point. If anything, him speaking up should be even more strongly commended given his ex-teammates have worn long sleeves while bowling -- he's not just speaking out against opposition bowlers, he's critiquing his own teammates and ex-teammates too.

By your logic, WW, I can never take a stance against chucking because I'm pretty sure my dad's bouncer involves more than fifteen degrees of straightening, and for me to criticise the practice of chucking while being in the same country and/or cricket team as a man who potentially does only makes me a hypocrite, right?

 

[WindieWeathers]

1. Ojha probably won't play anyway; they'll go with Ashwin and Jadeja. Which is stupid because Ojha is a far better spinner than Jadeja anyway.

2. Ojha wearing long sleeves in no way invalidates Ashwin's argument that long sleeves gives spinners an advantage. If anything, Ojha should be wearing long sleeves if so -- what kind of idiot bowler would give up something that legally gives them an advantage (insofar as it can cover up illegal activity, to an extent)?

Ashwin is not responsible for what the other members of his team do; he's responsible for what he does. Sharing a dressing room with Ojha or Harbhajan gives him no right whatsoever to to tell them not to wear long sleeves because he feels like making a point. If anything, him speaking up should be even more strongly commended given his ex-teammates have worn long sleeves while bowling -- he's not just speaking out against opposition bowlers, he's critiquing his own teammates and ex-teammates too.

By your logic, WW, I can never take a stance against chucking because I'm pretty sure my dad's bouncer involves more than fifteen degrees of straightening, and for me to criticise the practice of chucking while being in the same country and/or cricket team as a man who potentially does only makes me a hypocrite, right?

So no apology Dan? come on get rid of that guilt my friend!!

All i'm saying is he shouldn't try to throw stones at others if his own teammates are doing the same thing..address those AT HOME first before you subliminally start calling out opposing players.

In football terms it's like having a teammate who dives in the box..you see it happening and you say nothing..then next week you turn around and start moaning about opposition players diving..it's hypocritical imo. But that's just me...it's ok to disgaree Dan and i have no problem with that..i just can't stand people making accusations about sunny with no evidence whatsoever..that's all.

 

[cnerd123]

Really it's hard to tell who's losing this debate at the moment. The man who's the brick wall or the man who continues to argue with it.

 

[Dan]

In football terms it's like having a teammate who dives in the box..you see it happening and you say nothing..then next week you turn around and start moaning about opposition players diving..it's hypocritical imo.

Ashwin isn't moaning that the opposition is cheating and winning games though -- he's arguing that long sleeves give all spinners an advantage. Unless Indians don't come under that umbrella (inb4 Jadeja and Ojha darts jokes), he very much is criticising them as well.

He's not complaining that the opposition striker dove in the box; he's putting forward the case that diving is a little bit ****, whoever does it.

 

[Dan]

Really it's hard to tell who's losing this debate at the moment. The man who's the brick wall or the man who continues to argue with it.

Procrastination tbh; it's this or writing a thrilling 2500 word essay on whether international institutions can solve climate change.

 

[andruid]

I wonder how deadly a 4 man pace attack of Jerome Taylor, Fidel Edwards, Kemar Roach and Dwayne Bravo, with Narine as the spinner would be?

 

[sledger]

I wonder how deadly a 4 man pace attack of Jerome Taylor, Fidel Edwards, Kemar Roach and Dwayne Bravo, with Narine as the spinner would be?

Crap.