Will West Indies ever become as good as they were?

[sledger]

Eh, Bravo isn't world class.

Name batsmen in their 20s who are world class then Howsie? please enlighten me

Holy **** this is absolutely trash posting/logic. God almighty.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Holy **** this is absolutely trash posting/logic. God almighty.

Some SAID that Darren Bravo "wasn't world class"..so i asked him that question..please go and actually read the quotes back before making such statements .

 

[WindieWeathers]

Wow.

Why do you think he tried to emulate Narine? What was his purpose for doing so, and then brazenly stating in an interview that wearing long sleeves while doing so let him play with the limits?

I cannot believe that you can't understand the issue that Ashwin was trying to highlight.

So "he wanted to make a point" but then states that he would be bowling the same way again? yep...makes sense.

Tbh he only tried to "emulate" Sunny by changing his action...the long sleeves have been worn by several spinners including his MATE Singh!!.

 

[Dan]

So "he wanted to make a point" but then states that he would be bowling the same way again? yep...makes sense.

Tbh he only tried to "emulate" Sunny by the changing his action...the long sleevs have been worn by several spinners including his MATE Singh!!.

Wait, so Harbjahan wearing long sleeves means Ashwin can't critique it because they're of the same nationality? Wut?

 

[Dan]

Ravichandran Ashwin says bowling in 'long sleeves' gives 'competitive edge' to spinners | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[WindieWeathers]

Wait, so Harbjahan wearing long sleeves means Ashwin can't critique it because they're of the same nationality? Wut?

Not saying that..but he does look like a complete hypocrite if he's judging Narine but didn't say a word about Singh...why turn a blind eye to someone right under his nose?

 

[OverratedSanity]

When Windies talks to me or Daemon, he's taking digs at Kohli, Pujara, Ashwin and Harbhajan

When he's replying to marc, he sarcastically calls Moeen the next Murali

When replying to hendrix, he accuses him of being jealous, obviously because NZ's spinners ****.

Even though the last part is true, this my my country vs yours is pretty annoying.

 

[Dan]

Not saying that..but he does look like a complete hypocrite if he's judging Narine but didn't say a word about Singh...why turn a blind eye to someone right under his nose?

The entire point is he's saying that long-sleeves give "spinners" an advantage.

Last I checked, "spinners" was a category that applied equally to Harbhajan Singh and Sunil Narine. It just so happens that Narine and Ajmal were actually playing international cricket at the time.

 

[WindieWeathers]

When Windies talks to me or Daemon, he's taking digs at Kohli, Pujara, Ashwin and Harbhajan

When he's replying to marc, he sarcastically calls Moeen the next Murali

When replying to hendrix, he accuses him of being jealous, obviously because NZ's spinners ****.

Even though the last part is true, this my my country vs yours is pretty annoying.

Like i said before...please do not try and put words in my mouth. I told you already why i mentioned Kohli and Pujara in our orginal exchange..those guys are matched up with Darren as they are both in their mid 20s and were seen as "world class"..therefore why isn't Darren when he has a better average than Kohli? that logic doesn't suit your claim about Darren and that's why you got mad.

If i was having a dig i would have mentioned Dhawan aswell...but i didn't because he was not seen as world class.

In closing i'm not having a go at Singh either...i'm just saying he wears long sleeves so Ashwin shouldn't be complaining...infact doesn't Ohja wear long sleeves too? so Ravi should talk to his teammate if he feels long sleeves shouldn't be allowed...that's all i'm saying.

I'm so over the "national" rubbish..it's so 2010 and it won't stick anymore.

 

[WindieWeathers]

The entire point is he's saying that long-sleeves give "spinners" an advantage.

Last I checked, "spinners" was a category that applied equally to Harbhajan Singh and Sunil Narine. It just so happens that Narine and Ajmal were actually playing international cricket at the time.

Like i said in the post above what about his teammate Ohja? He wears long sleeves too.

 

[sledger]

Some SAID that Darren Bravo "wasn't world class"..so i asked him that question..please go and actually read the quotes back before making such statements .

Yeah, and your question was absolute nonsense. You seem to be implying that if there aren't any better batsman in their 20s that are better than Bravo, Bravo must therefore de facto be world class.

 

[sledger]

I'm so over the "national" rubbish..

lol

 

[Daemon]

Tbh he only tried to "emulate" Sunny by changing his action...the long sleeves have been worn by several spinners

I agree that he quite possibly wasn't just aiming his comments and actions at solely Narine (but Narine was definitely a target), but to me it was quite clear that he was trying to highlight the issue of chucking and long sleeves, and I cannot fathom how it can be taken in any other way.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I've never seen you change your views on pretty much any topic and I don't want to get into yet another long winded argument that leads to nowhere.


On the topic of Bravo and Roach being world class, I guess it depends on how you define the term. I think they're both damn good players and people are underrating them a bit in this argument, but they're simply not in the class of Chanders and Lara which I'm sure you won't disagree with. When OS stated that the WI haven't produced a single 'world class' player, I think he was just trying to say that there's been no one who's reached that level yet. He even went on to say that Bravo and Roach were both quality players so you guys and Howsie were pretty much just disagreeing on how you define world class (along with a bit of disagreement on Bravo's potential).

Completely disagree with this though -

Bravo has a long way to go to be called world class, an average in the low 40s plus being found out in much the same way as the Indians you derided have been don't really help his cause.

No matter how you define it I don't think he has a long way to go. Not sure how he's been 'found out' either.

 

[hendrix]

There are plenty of international trams that haven't had a player of Chanders' or Lara's quality in years. England. NZ. Pakistan. Noone in the current Indian team is on his level.

I don't really get how that can be a criticism.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Like i said before...please do not try and put words in my mouth. I told you already why i mentioned Kohli and Pujara in our orginal exchange..those guys are matched up with Darren as they are both in their mid 20s and were seen as "world class"..therefore why isn't Darren when he has a better average than Kohli? that logic doesn't suit your claim about Darren and that's why you got mad.

Average isn't everything. The reason for Kohli being judged so highly is in part due to his ODI record its fantastic, neither of them are actually yet proven world class batsmen in tests they've played some good innings but that's more or less it thus far.

i'm just saying he wears long sleeves so Ashwin shouldn't be complaining

Sorry but that's just bollocks it means sweet fa in regards to Ashwin's complaint that Singh wore long sleeves while playing.


Also if you want world class players in or by their mid 20s, look at the past 20-30 years you will find plenty.

 

[BeeGee]

There are plenty of international trams that haven't had a player of Chanders' or Lara's quality in years.

Is there such a thing as an international tram? Maybe in Europe? "I'd like a ticket for the 2:30 to Belgium, please."

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah, and your question was absolute nonsense. You seem to be implying that if there aren't any better batsman in their 20s that are better than Bravo, Bravo must therefore de facto be world class.

AGAIN please don't put words in my mouth...i asked a simple question, that's all it was.

 

[Dan]

Like i said in the post above what about his teammate Ohja? He wears long sleeves too.

How does this matter in the slightest? Ashwin can't criticise a behaviour unless no other Indian does it? Why does his nationality matter at all?

Plus, Ojha wasn't playing international cricket when Ashwin aired his greivance; Ajmal and Narine were. This isn't part of some "poor little Windies" narrative; literally everything you have said in this thread is wrong, irrelevant or uselessly nationalistic.

 

[Goughy]

There are plenty of international trams that haven't had a player of Chanders' or Lara's quality in years. England. NZ. Pakistan. Noone in the current Indian team is on his level.

I don't really get how that can be a criticism.

That raises an interesting question. Would England have been as successful with Chanders instead of KP? I'd argue, with no basis other than weak opinion, that the lows wouldn't have been as low and the highs not as high. On that balance I would not have traded KP for Shiv.

 

[Athlai]

That raises an interesting question. Would England have been as successful with Chanders instead of KP? I'd argue, with no basis other than weak opinion, that the lows wouldn't have been as low and the highs not as high. On that balance I would not have traded KP for Shiv.

I'd have traded him every day of the week. England through recent memory have actually needed a middle order backbone. I'd probably keep KP for India, SA and AU if it was one or the other though.