WI of the 80's or Australia Current?

[C_C]

martyn is a rejuvinated player these days, confident against spinners as well as the quicks, who he has always been good against. he could always dominate the quicks though

so name a bowling attack akin to the WI four prong that Martyn dominated.
He is good against pace....very good....but dominating the four prong is beyond bradman himself...let alone anyone else. you survived the four prong and hoped for the best on MOST occasions......and once in a blue moon someone dominated them.

 

[a massive zebra]

Warne - Marshall: Warne the bigger match-winner

One of the most ridiculous comments of recent times.

 

[C_C]

nah their batting through the 90's was always dtronger than the 70's and 80's

not true..until late 90s or so rolled around, IND batting was about the same level....Tendulkar slightly superior to Gavaskar ( tendy slightly superior), Amarnath superior to Manjrekar/Sidhu, Vengsarkar about on par with Azharuddin.

 

[age_master]

so name a bowling attack akin to the WI four prong that Martyn dominated.
He is good against pace....very good....but dominating the four prong is beyond bradman himself...let alone anyone else. you survived the four prong and hoped for the best on MOST occasions......and once in a blue moon someone dominated them.

Ponting and Martyn are 2 of the best players of quick bowling going round - now im not saying that he would go out and hit 400 every innings, but he would do better most others (how many times did your west indian lineup face a bowling attack as good as australia's eh?)

 

[age_master]

One of the most ridiculous comments of recent times.

how so? arguably the best spinner vs the best quick of the post war era? the difference is how many other quicks are close to Marshall (even in his own team) and how many spinner are close to Warne?

 

[LongHopCassidy]

dominating the four prong is beyond bradman himself...

Bradman averaged 50+ against some of the meanest and hardest bowling of all time (Bodyline). On uncovered wickets.

I'd be inclined to give him a chance against (relatively) fuller-pitched bowling on a reasonable deck.

 

[C_C]

Ponting and Martyn are 2 of the best players of quick bowling going round - now im not saying that he would go out and hit 400 every innings, but he would do better most others (how many times did your west indian lineup face a bowling attack as good as australia's eh?)

yes. better than most others. no doubt. But the thing is- most others **** their pants in front of the four prong. only the GREAT batsmen could prevent yellowed pants....

As good as OZ ? OZ of the 70s wernt far off.......two great bowlers backed up by one decent and one mediocre bowler ( much like the same now...)

And the PAK of late 80s were significantly superior- possibly the second best bowling attack ever with Imran Khan,Wasim Akram,Waqar Younis and Abdul Qadir.
The WI didnt do too badly if you can take into account that most of the ones concerned in this argument were nearing 40 and the end of their careers.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

One of the most ridiculous comments of recent times.

Name a game (or 15) Marshall won (from the brink of defeat) single-handedly.

That is how I define a match-winner.

 

[C_C]

Name a game Marshall won (from the brink of defeat) single-handedly.

That is how I define a match-winner.

faulty definition.
As this depends on the quality of the team.
If you are in a team like the WI or the current AUS team, you rarely see a defeat scenario.
Warne's 'matchwinning from brink of defeat' were mostly in the 90s when the OZ wernt quiete there yet.

marshall's best blows away Warne's best.

 

[age_master]

yes. better than most others. no doubt. But the thing is- most others **** their pants in front of the four prong. only the GREAT batsmen could prevent yellowed pants....

As good as OZ ? OZ of the 70s wernt far off.......two great bowlers backed up by one decent and one mediocre bowler ( much like the same now...)

And the PAK of late 80s were significantly superior- possibly the second best bowling attack ever with Imran Khan,Wasim Akram,Waqar Younis and Abdul Qadir.
The WI didnt do too badly if you can take into account that most of the ones concerned in this argument were nearing 40 and the end of their careers.

you cant put the aussie batting down cause there arn't really classy bowling attacks to face. im sure they would love the challenge -


what are your thoughts on the world XI lineup - how do you reakon that side will compare to the WI side of the 80's... considering AUstralia will play them soon

 

[C_C]

what are your thoughts on the world XI lineup - how do you reakon that side will compare to the WI side of the 80's... considering AUstralia will play them soon

they would lose too.

THere are only four team combinations that i can think of that will give the WI of the 70s/80s a close series or beat them.
They are:
Alltime World XI
alltime AUS XI
Alltime WI XI
Bradman's invincibles.

 

[age_master]

marshall's best blows away Warne's best.

7-22 marshalls best

Warne's 8/71 (incidentally marshalls best FC figures are 8/71)

 

[hourn]

it would be an interesting battle for sure.

The two big things:
"The Australian batting line-up would've never faced a four pronged attack as strong as the West Indians where all four bowlers could potentially win the match for them"
but
"The West Indies bowling line-up would've never faced such a hard task getting through to the 8th batsmen where all of the top seven could quite conceivably hit 150+ score"

People always mention the first quote, but very seldom do you hear the second quote mentioned.....

The Windies decimated some great batsmen, and ran through many a batting line-ups, but even disregarding the fact batting is much easier for batsmen these days, they still would have never come up against 7 batsmen of this quality in one innings.....

Overall, i reckon it would be pretty even. I reckon if they played 100 tests between the Windies 81-82 v Aus 03-04 then i'd suggest you'd probably end up with 40 wins a piece and 20 draws........

 

[age_master]

they would lose too.

THere are only four team combinations that i can think of that will give the WI of the 70s/80s a close series or beat them.
They are:
Alltime World XI
alltime AUS XI
Alltime WI XI
Bradman's invincibles.

interesting....


what about One dayers...

 

[C_C]

you cant put the aussie batting down cause there arn't really classy bowling attacks to face. im sure they would love the challenge -

pure conjecture.
Many of the current OZ batsmen yellowed their pants at the hands of Ambrose and Walsh.......

7-22 marshalls best

Warne's 8/71

and for marshall to lower his best to warne's level would mean taking 1 wicket for 49 runs.

 

[age_master]

pure conjecture.
Many of the current OZ batsmen yellowed their pants at the hands of Ambrose and Walsh.......



and for marshall to lower his best to warne's level would mean taking 1 wicket for 49 runs.

1) experience, to face the same attack with the experience they now have would be completley different


ahh yes but Warnes bowled cheaper 7 wicket spells too - definatley not blown out of the water - also spinners tend to go for a few more runs than quicks as a general rule

 

[C_C]

interesting....


what about One dayers...

mmm
One dayers are a lot harder to compare as they have evolved about 10x as much in the same timeframe as test cricket.
I would rank Greenidge pretty highly as he did pretty well for an ODI batsman...
Haynes would give any ODI opener in the history of ODIs barring Tendulkar a run for his money.
Viv to me is the only batsman who can compare to or beat Tendulkar for the best ODI batsman ever stake......
Garner is one of the best ever ODI bowlers and the best bowler at death in my opinion...Marshall...very stingy......
Holding......i dont remember his ODI stats on top of my head...but i think he did rather well too...
Roberts ...same as holding.
Dujon....a decent ODI bat...

hmmm...i decline to call on the ODIs since its way too different both in terms of rules and application.

 

[C_C]

experience, to face the same attack with the experience they now have would be completley different

not entirely true.
You are assuming that with experience the batsman will improve but the bowler wont........i disagree.

ahh yes but Warnes bowled cheaper 7 wicket spells too - definatley not blown out of the water - also spinners tend to go for a few more runs than quicks as a general rule

true...which is why i would take a pacer like Marshall over Warne any day of the week.

 

[age_master]

lol

 

[LongHopCassidy]

marshall's best blows away Warne's best.

Why? How? Does Warnie's titanic efforts against Sri Lanka (1992 and 2004), South Africa (1999 WC semi and 2002), and England (most of his waking hours) somehow wither in the eyes of Marshall?