WI of the 80's or Australia Current?

[age_master]

Kaspa might not seem good but he is regularly called one of the most awkward bowlers to face. as for Dizzy, he rocks and is unplayable on a greentop

nah Martyn and langer would make this WI side of yours they both rock and are much better trhan their averages suggest

 

[C_C]

Apologies.
No bangladesh and ZIm there.

However, these are Kaspa's figures since his return in completed series:

12 wickets @ 25.16 in SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 vs SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 in IND
9 wickets @ 24.00 vs NZ


SL arnt known for playing pace and thats one of their weaknesses.....and besides, those are average stats at best...he's gone from being a poor bowler to a mediocre bowler.....why dont you see what marshall,Roberts,Holding,Garner etc. achieved on 'poor' tracks and 'good tracks' ?

 

[age_master]

And in the point/backward point was the other colossus of alltime fielding- Viv Richards.
Lloyd fielded at point/backward point during his early years...then WI had a very mediocre patch with regards to pace bowlers ( late 60s/early 70s) and Lloyd switched to Covers, where he dominated like no other.
By the time the vaunted four prong had materialised, Viv Richards was either in the slips or in point/backward point.
You cant have two people standing on the same position, can ya ?

meh, i dont think we will ever agree here, but from what ive seen, they were good, but not near the current top fielders

another small point is the 4 giants the WI had roaming the field, not such good fielders, wheras McGrath, Kaspa, Dizzy and Lee, particularly McGrath and Lee are awsome outfielders

 

[C_C]

Kaspa might not seem good but he is regularly called one of the most awkward bowlers to face. as for Dizzy, he rocks and is unplayable on a greentop

nah Martyn and langer would make this WI side of yours they both rock and are much better trhan their averages suggest

Yeah...he is awkward...he is decent....but he is not a GREAT like Marshall,Roberts,Holding and Garner were....nowhere even remotely close.
Dizzy rocks....yes...but he wouldnt get in the WI team of the 70s and 80s....
whom does he replace ?
Marshall ? Hah! even McGrath/Lillee cannot replace this guy on bowling prowess, let alone Gillespie
Holding ? a shade behind McGrath and a cut above Gillespie
Garner ? a shade behind McGrath and a cut above Gillespie
Roberts ? a shade and half behind McGrath and a cut above Gillespie
Croft ? one of the most awkward bowlers ever and same ballpark as Roberts
Clarke ? he decimated the vaunted Saffie batting in rebel tours....could walk into ANY TEAM, ANY ERA. Shows the depth of the WI bowling that he couldnt get a chance.
Wayne Daniel ? Winston Davis ? yeah...now you are talking about Gillespie level.

And lets not even bother with Kaspa.

 

[C_C]

meh, i dont think we will ever agree here, but from what ive seen, they were good, but not near the current top fielders

You havnt seen enough then.
Like i said, Viv and Lloyd were fit to rub shoulders with fielders like Jonty Rhodes and Colin bland.
Watch, read and learn.

another small point is the 4 giants the WI had roaming the field, not such good fielders, wheras McGrath, Kaspa, Dizzy and Lee, particularly McGrath and Lee are awsome outfielders

Umm...Holding was an AWESOME fielder from the deep...possibly the strongest arm ever....i forget against whom < i think it was against IND> but Holding ran out the batsman, who were running a single, by a direct hit from the long on.
One thing you'll find if you read the biographies/autobiographies from the 70s/80s players - dont test the arm of Lloyd,Viv and Holding.

Marshall was a very competent fielder...
Garner was not up to par i agree....but overall, this WI team eclipses the aussies on fielding...easily.
the ones that WOULD be in their ballpark would be the saffies from mid 90s.

 

[age_master]

Apologies.
No bangladesh and ZIm there.

However, these are Kaspa's figures since his return in completed series:

12 wickets @ 25.16 in SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 vs SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 in IND
9 wickets @ 24.00 vs NZ


SL arnt known for playing pace and thats one of their weaknesses.....and besides, those are average stats at best...he's gone from being a poor bowler to a mediocre bowler.....why dont you see what marshall,Roberts,Holding,Garner etc. achieved on 'poor' tracks and 'good tracks' ?

hehe Andy Roberts never played in Sri Lanka, bowled well in India though - though India were hardly the batting might back than that they are today

marshall never played in SRL either - averaged nearly 25 in india though :o

Holding didn't play in SRL either - averaging slightly lower in india, again, without the batting india is known for these days

Garner didn;t play in india or SRL....

 

[Mister Wright]

Apologies.
No bangladesh and ZIm there.

However, these are Kaspa's figures since his return in completed series:

12 wickets @ 25.16 in SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 vs SL
9 wickets @ 28.33 in IND
9 wickets @ 24.00 vs NZ


SL arnt known for playing pace and thats one of their weaknesses.....and besides, those are average stats at best...he's gone from being a poor bowler to a mediocre bowler.....why dont you see what marshall,Roberts,Holding,Garner etc. achieved on 'poor' tracks and 'good tracks' ?

How about 7 wickets @ under 5 against Pakistan.

 

[age_master]

You havnt seen enough then.
Like i said, Viv and Lloyd were fit to rub shoulders with fielders like Jonty Rhodes and Colin bland.
Watch, read and learn.



Umm...Holding was an AWESOME fielder from the deep...possibly the strongest arm ever....i forget against whom < i think it was against IND> but Holding ran out the batsman, who were running a single, by a direct hit from the long on.
One thing you'll find if you read the biographies/autobiographies from the 70s/80s players - dont test the arm of Lloyd,Viv and Holding.

Marshall was a very competent fielder...
Garner was not up to par i agree....but overall, this WI team eclipses the aussies on fielding...easily.
the ones that WOULD be in their ballpark would be the saffies from mid 90s.

hehe have you seen the arms on Lee, McGrath or Symonds (now that guy can throw flatter than anyone from the boundary)

seriously you may have seen the WI fielders but i dont think you have seen enough of the aussie fielding....

 

[age_master]

How about 7 wickets @ under 5 against Pakistan.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

An In-Depth Analysis:

Langer - Greenidge: Greenidge has the edge, but Langer's achievements stack up
Hayden - Haynes: Hayden by a small margin
Ponting - Richards: Richards is legendary
Martyn - Kallicharran: Too close to call
Waugh - Gomes: Waugh, easily
Lehmann - Lloyd: Lloyd by a mile
Gilchrist - Dujon: Gilly's batting overshadows Dujon's slightly superior glovework
Warne - Marshall: Warne the bigger match-winner
Gillespie - Roberts: Roberts slightly superior
Kasprowicz - Holding: You have a guess
McGrath - Garner: McGrath more reliable and consistent

Competition: Both have had little or no real competiton, with impregnable home records.

Pitches: Far favoured West Indians in terms of bowling, but Australian pace battery has delivered on flat tracks.

Captaincy: Both skippers led from the front, but Waugh had the advantage in tactics and batting.

Variety: Australia have a distinct advantage with a specialist spinner in Warne.

Fielding: Approximately equal. West Indies were more noted for it but only because the standard then was far lower.

I'll leave the decision to you.

I rest my case.

 

[C_C]

hehe Andy Roberts never played in Sri Lanka, bowled well in India though - though India were hardly the batting might back than that they are today

marshall never played in SRL either - averaged nearly 25 in india though :o

Holding didn't play in SRL either - averaging slightly lower in india, again, without the batting india is known for these days

Garner didn;t play in india or SRL....

yes..and it counts in the aussie favour with respect to this discussion tht roberts/marshall/holding etc. didnt play in SL..if they had, their stats would've been even superior- since SL were about the same level as new zealand in the mid/late 90s- regular candidate for annihilation.

And care to post what Kaspa averages in IND ?
its a bit rich comparing the AVERAGE of one player and the BEST SERIES of another....

How about 7 wickets @ under 5 against Pakistan.

i said completed series.

hehe have you seen the arms on Lee, McGrath or Symonds (now that guy can throw flatter than anyone from the boundary)

seriously you may have seen the WI fielders but i dont think you have seen enough of the aussie fielding....

i have and thats why i am commenting.
Lee and McGrath have nothing on Viv,Lloyd and Holding when it comes to flat, hard and pin-point accuracy in the throws...Symonds too is behind.
You are talking about a man <holding> who regularly hit the stumps from the boundary.

 

[age_master]

gilchrist usually catches the ball around in in front of the stumps when its not close to a run out. if you watched closley you would see how many are right next to or hitting the stumps

 

[C_C]

[/quote]

Langer - Greenidge: Greenidge has the edge, but Langer's achievements stack up
Hayden - Haynes: Hayden by a small margin
Ponting - Richards: Richards is legendary
Martyn - Kallicharran: Too close to call
Waugh - Gomes: Waugh, easily
Lehmann - Lloyd: Lloyd by a mile
Gilchrist - Dujon: Gilly's batting overshadows Dujon's slightly superior glovework
Warne - Marshall: Warne the bigger match-winner
Gillespie - Roberts: Roberts slightly superior
Kasprowicz - Holding: You have a guess
McGrath - Garner: McGrath more reliable and consistent

[/quote]

Interesting...matching up marshall to warne..... and Warne the bigger matchwinner ? heh...against mediocre oppositions perhaps.
But NO nation dominated Marshall like IND have twacked around Warne like a schoolkid.
If it comes down to picking marshall or warne, i would pick marshall ten times outta 10. That guy performed on ANY surface and didnt get clobbered by ANY opposition on a regular basis.

And Kalli-Martyn is a close call ?
Kalli averaged nearly 50 in THOSE DAYS -where 50 average was huge- befoer his shoulder injury.
He would've retired with a near 50 average too, if there wasnt packer cricket and Kalli didnt get called to represent the depleated WI side.
Martyn is awesome but Kalli dominated Lillee and Thommo on a few occasions.

 

[age_master]

i would pick marshall ten times outta 10.

well its pretty obvious who you would pick, you hve to remember that India have never been as strong with the bat as they are now - bowlers didn't get hammered as much in india as they do now.

 

[C_C]

gilchrist usually catches the ball around in in front of the stumps when its not close to a run out. if you watched closley you would see how many are right next to or hitting the stumps

right next to isnt hitting it mate.
Its like being almost a man...but not quiete.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Lee and McGrath have nothing on Viv,Lloyd and Holding when it comes to flat, hard and pin-point accuracy in the throws...Symonds too is behind.

This is the golden era of fielding. It takes a LOT to be noticed in this day and age in your fielding, and Symonds, Lee and McGrath have achieved that. Ponting especially.

 

[age_master]

And Kalli-Martyn is a close call ?
Kalli averaged nearly 50 in THOSE DAYS -where 50 average was huge- befoer his shoulder injury.
He would've retired with a near 50 average too, if there wasnt packer cricket and Kalli didnt get called to represent the depleated WI side.
Martyn is awesome but Kalli dominated Lillee and Thommo on a few occasions.[/QUOTE]

martyn is a rejuvinated player these days, confident against spinners as well as the quicks, who he has always been good against. he could always dominate the quicks though

 

[C_C]

well its pretty obvious who you would pick, you hve to remember that India have never been as strong with the bat as they are now - bowlers didn't get hammered as much in india as they do now.

warne has been hammered silly by IND for a while now...and not since Sehwag, Dravid and Laxman have become great/excellent/future great players.......
they even clobbered warne with a batting lineup akin to IND in the mid 80s.

 

[age_master]

right next to isnt hitting it mate.
Its like being almost a man...but not quiete.

its all about consistancy in the throw, next to or hitting 99 throws out of 100...

 

[age_master]

warne has been hammered silly by IND for a while now...and not since Sehwag, Dravid and Laxman have become great/excellent/future great players.......
they even clobbered warne with a batting lineup akin to IND in the mid 80s.

nah their batting through the 90's was always dtronger than the 70's and 80's