Why the hypocrisy on Zimbabwe ?

[Dick Rockett]

Idealism is such a stereotypical student trait, thats all.

Meh, I find it extraordinary that people are so willing to let go of their ideals because reality makes believing in them so hard.

If countries don't boycott the Beijing Olympics it can only be because of China's emerging and existing power as a trading partner. That's a really, really lame excuse to overlook human rights violations AFAIC.

 

[shortpitched713]

Meh, I find it extraordinary that people are so willing to let go of their ideals because reality makes believing in them so hard.

If countries don't boycott the Beijing Olympics it can only be because of China's emerging and existing power as a trading partner. That's a really, really lame excuse to overlook human rights violations AFAIC.

Or in the US's case they'd probably be afraid of losing to China in the medals tally for the first time.

It wouldn't be such a lame excuse if you had a policy of not mixing politics and sport though. I think I've discussed this issue before but I feel that its particularly apt in the case of the Olympics. After all the Olympics traditionally have been a time that countries have put aside political and sometimes even military squabbles for the sake of sport. It may not be the most important thing, but if it can bring temporary unity to the world then I think one would do best to avoid making such political statements at that time except in the case of utmost neccessity.

 

[Sanz]

Irrelevant and a cheap shot. Sanz made no comment on India's China policy and that's not something that is being discussed in this thread. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I dare say he'd be just as disappointed in the hypocrisy present in the Indian govt as he is with the Aus govt.

Thanks Dasa. You are absolutely right , if Indian govt were to abandon a tour of Zimbabwe on the basis of human rights, I would have pointed the hypocrisy displayed by our govt.

But Social is just being himself and predictble. He lost the argument and resorted to cheapshots as usual.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Or in the US's case they'd probably be afraid of losing to Chinal in the medals tally for the first time.

It wouldn't be such a lame excuse if you had a policy of not mixing politics and sport though. I think I've discussed this issue before but I feel that its particularly apt in the case of the Olympics. After all the Olympics traditionally have been a time that countries have put aside political and sometimes even military squabbles for the sake of sport. It may not be the most important thing, but if it can bring temporary unity to the world then I think one would do best to avoid making such political statements at that time except in the case of utmost neccessity.

That might also be a nice ideal were it not for the fact that certain countries have ignored it when it's suited them - the US/Russia tit-for-tat Olympic boycotts in 1980/84 being the best example. I do get your point though.

 

[FRAZ]

- and pissing off China is a very, very bad idea. .

haha and pussing off Zimbabwe isn't !!!!

 

[FRAZ]

Given that India is so deeply affected by Tibet, it's pretty surprising that your Government has chosen to recognise China's definition of that country as a means to facilitating trade between India and China

And here I was thinking that Australia had a mortgage on hypocrisy

 

[FRAZ]

Pakistan is basically run by MUsharraf and his set of cronies who have economic and personal interests invested in Western countries such as the UK and the USA. the USA needs Musharraf in place so that Central Asian gas can flow from the Uzbek and Kazakh republics to the ports of Gwadar and Karachi. In return, they guarantee the safety of his interests..

Assumption !! Isn't it ? Absolutely wrong .

 

[social]

Thanks Dasa. You are absolutely right , if Indian govt were to abandon a tour of Zimbabwe on the basis of human rights, I would have pointed the hypocrisy displayed by our govt.

But Social is just being himself and predictble. He lost the argument and resorted to cheapshots as usual.

Sanz, you just dont get it

The Oz gov't doesnt even grant members of the Mugabe govt and their cronies visas to enter our country and have cut off all diplomatic ties

As if they're going to be comfortable with one of our sporting teams touring a country that they've cut off all diplomatic ties to.

China is a totally different scenario bacause we've tried the heavy-handed response and it hasnt worked -Australia co-authored the UN resolution condemning human rights violations in China on a bi-annual basis for 6 years before giving up because not one advance came of it.

Unfortunately, history shows that if you hold a gun to their head, not only do the Chinese not give a toss, but retribution will be merciless and innocent bystanders are almost certain to get hurt

That's not hypocrisy - it's a different approach to a similar problem


BTW, Australia has suffered continual condemnation from China because of decisions to allow the Dalai Lama to visit (touring here in June and buying a house in Sydney or Perth apparently), by allowing the organised practice of Falun Gong and by allowing 4 offices of PRC (Taiwan) to be established here.

 

[razorman]

Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka all have terrible human rights records. Both the UK and Australia participated in the invasion of Iraq, which many people consider illegal and which has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. While there is no doubting the odious nature of Mugabe's regime, I would think the cricketing nations need to be very careful before they start boycotting countries on moral grounds.

 

[Richard]

Heheh. Matthew Engel - as ever - put it right on the money when he said:

It is true that it is all too easy to get on a high horse about this. I could have a decent stab at writing a powerful newspaper column arguing the moral case against playing cricket in any place you care to name, however innocuous it might seem. (Even New Zealand has dirty little secrets, you know. The UK certainly has.) But, somewhere in the dust, by no means easy to find, is a line that no decent human being should cross. And I believe the wretched tyranny that is Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe is now across that line and that no team should tour there.

 

[Sanz]

BTW, Australia has suffered continual condemnation from China because of decisions to allow the Dalai Lama to visit (touring here in June and buying a house in Sydney or Perth apparently), by allowing the organised practice of Falun Gong and by allowing 4 offices of PRC (Taiwan) to be established here.

WOW, what a stand, Bow to the might of Australian govt for allowing Dalai Lama to buy a house in Perth and Standing upto to China. ? India fought (and lost) a war with China mostly because of her stand on Tibet and Allowing Dalai Lama in India. Besides Dalai Lama still runs his govt in exile from Dharmshala, India. But that's nothing compared to the Stand Aussie Govt. has taken over Tibet.

Btw - PRC is not Taiwan, It is People's Republic of China (also known as CHINA). Taiwan
is called Republic Of China (ROC) or Chinese Taipei. Thanks for the lesson in World Politics. I am sure you gained this extensive knowledge about China because ,as you said, you have been visiting it for past 20 years.

 

[Sanz]

Sanz, you just dont get it
The Oz gov't doesnt even grant members of the Mugabe govt and their cronies visas to enter our country and have cut off all diplomatic ties

Yeah Right !!! From the Australian Govt's Website :-

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/zimbabwe/zimbabwe_brief.html

Bilateral relations

"Australia maintains formal diplomatic relations with Zimbabwe...."

Thank You and try selling that BS somewhere else.

 

[Sanz]

Australia co-authored the UN resolution condemning human rights violations in China on a bi-annual basis for 6 years before giving up because not one advance came of it.

Oh Really ? So now that you have educated us enough on China and we know what PRC stand for, Would you please educate us on how effective Commonwealth was with its polies against Zimbabwe ?

 

[social]

Yeah Right !!! From the Australian Govt's Website :-

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/zimbabwe/zimbabwe_brief.html

Bilateral relations

"Australia maintains formal diplomatic relations with Zimbabwe...."

Thank You and try selling that BS somewhere else.

Australia has placed a ban on Zimbabwean pollies and their mates entering the country (even in transit), frozen the Australian assets of Zimbabwean politicians, put motions before the International Security Council (defeated primarily because of black Afrian nations' opposition and refuses to have dialogue with Mugabe and others.

Yup, relations are well and truly on track

 

[social]

Oh Really ? So now that you have educated us enough on China and we know what PRC stand for, Would you please educate us on how effective Commonwealth was with its polies against Zimbabwe ?

Urm, the Commonwealth suspended Zimbabwe and Mugabe responded by withdrawing permanently - in short, he could not have cared less for what they could do for his country and so the actions were meaningless

However, since that time, Zimbabwe has gone on to bigger and better things such as genocide, hyper-inflation and mass-starvation and the day of reckoning is approaching

 

[social]

WOW, what a stand, Bow to the might of Australian govt for allowing Dalai Lama to buy a house in Perth and Standing upto to China. ? India fought (and lost) a war with China mostly because of her stand on Tibet and Allowing Dalai Lama in India. Besides Dalai Lama still runs his govt in exile from Dharmshala, India. But that's nothing compared to the Stand Aussie Govt. has taken over Tibet.

Btw - PRC is not Taiwan, It is People's Republic of China (also known as CHINA). Taiwan
is called Republic Of China (ROC) or Chinese Taipei. Thanks for the lesson in World Politics. I am sure you gained this extensive knowledge about China because ,as you said, you have been visiting it for past 20 years.

HMMM, so either the government of India is morally bankrupt OR they've come to realise that aggression is not the best tactic to use against China

KNOCK, KNOCK, ANYBODY HOME?

 

[Sanz]

HMMM, so either the government of India is morally bankrupt OR they've come to realise that aggression is not the best tactic to use against China

KNOCK, KNOCK, ANYBODY HOME?

Both as far as their stand on Tibet goes. Unlike you I am not going to defend every stand of my country's government.

 

[Sanz]

Australia has placed a ban on Zimbabwean pollies and their mates entering the country (even in transit), frozen the Australian assets of Zimbabwean politicians, put motions before the International Security Council (defeated primarily because of black Afrian nations' opposition and refuses to have dialogue with Mugabe and others.

Yup, relations are well and truly on track

Clutching Straws ? The above BS is not same as not having diplomatic/trade relationship with Zimbabwe.So, Does Australia maintain a DIPLOMATIC relation with ZIMBABWE ? YES

It's so typical of you to blame 'Black African Nations' for the failure if Security council motions. Can you please name these 'Black African Nations' that are the member of the Security council and have the authority to VETO a Security Council motion passed by the majority ?

 

[Sanz]

Urm, the Commonwealth suspended Zimbabwe and Mugabe responded by withdrawing permanently - in short, he could not have cared less for what they could do for his country and so the actions were meaningless

So In short, it didn't mean anything, if at all it made the matter worse.

However, since that time, Zimbabwe has gone on to bigger and better things such as genocide, hyper-inflation and mass-starvation and the day of reckoning is approaching

That's not the point of discussion here. I dont think I have argued against that ever.

 

[social]

Both as far as their stand on Tibet goes. Unlike you I am not going to defend every stand of my country's government.

So your country goes to war over the rights of another people, loses and yet is somehow morally bankrupt for attempting to find another means of resolution?

You obviously favour the "beating your head against a brick wall approach."