Why Isn't Mark Butcher in the ODI side?

[Armadillo]

????????

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Probably because of his 27.98 List A average with just 1 hundred. Then again, Collingwood averaged under 30 before he played any ODIs (from memory, not sure) with 1 hundred. Vaughan averages 27.12 with 1 hundred.

All in all, he may end up one of the better Test players to never get a look in in ODIs.

 

[Armadillo]

Yes but if hes so successful in tests they might as well give him a try in OD. England need an opener right now, maybe hes the man for the job.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The England selectors seem to think that Vaughan is the man for the job in ODIs, but I think that if they were to try someone else, a younger batsman (Strauss perhaps?) would be the better option.

 

[Armadillo]

I think Michael Vaughan has been one of the worst cases of a batsman who has failed under captincy

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Admittedly he has been under par thus far, but he's had a couple of good innings and it's too early to call him a failure. Habibul Bashar has had a worse start...

 

[Richard]

I think Michael Vaughan has been one of the worst cases of a batsman who has failed under captincy

Vaughan's ODI failures are absolutely nothing to do with the captaincy.
He has never been a good one-day player all his career. Exactly the same, in fact, as Butcher. Neither should have been \ should be picked for ODIs.
Test-match success doesn't mean a thing as to ODIs, we've seen that countless times. They're different forms of the game.

 

[Richard]

The England selectors seem to think that Vaughan is the man for the job in ODIs, but I think that if they were to try someone else, a younger batsman (Strauss perhaps?) would be the better option.

Strauss has never been much of a one-day player either.
His 2003 wasn't too bad, but the time before that wasn't too impressive.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Well, maybe he has improved?

Just a suggestion.

 

[Armadillo]

If thy've never tried butcher in OD then they might as well, what is to stop him playing really well

 

[Langeveldt]

Amazing.. I was just about to post a thread reguarding Butch not being in the ODI side


Anyway.. for the first time in his int career, I think Trescothick doesnt warrant selection any more...

I would like to see Butcher replace him at the top of the ODI order...

As for Vaughan, well they cant ditch him from ODI's if he is captain... And im not sure if there is a viable alternative with proven class...

None of this will happen while Fletcher is at the helm of English cricket IMO.........

 

[marc71178]

Anyway.. for the first time in his int career, I think Trescothick doesnt warrant selection any more...

Is this the Trescothick that is 9 in the ODI ratings for PwC?

He's had a few low scores, but also 5 times past 50 in his last 13 innings...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Strauss has never been much of a one-day player either.
His 2003 wasn't too bad, but the time before that wasn't too impressive.

Yes, but he has similar stats to Bucther (averagewise anyway) and if you're going to go for a player averaging in the high 20's, you might as well expose a player who has a shot at playing until well past the next WC.

 

[Langeveldt]

Is this the Trescothick that is 9 in the ODI ratings for PwC?

He's had a few low scores, but also 5 times past 50 in his last 13 innings...

Didnt realize he was so high up!

His early form in the WI, one day or not is really worrying... and I dont think he has the technique to stay at nine for much longer...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Hmmm... Chris Gayle doesn't have the greatest technique, but he continues to score impressively. I think that it's largely due to his temperament and new-found maturity.

In the last year or two he has been far more selective outside offstump and more willing to exercise the leave-alone. As such he has reaped the benefits of flying up the ODI rankings.

I haven't seen Trescothick bat in a while, but from what I've heard his lack of foot movement is really getting to be troublesome. Gayle is still pretty leadfooted but, as stated above, his shot selection has helped diminish the exposing of this flaw. When Trescothick debuted I distinctly remember that he had rather superb judgement on and outside offstump. It frustrated the hell out of the West Indian bowlers. Has he given this up or is it still part of his game?

This is not an analysis as much as it is a general comment.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well, he still possesses it, but often doesnt care! He gets carried away when he is in good form, and depite often knowing (or I think he does) know the ball is way outside off, he still plays at it.

Still a good player when he feels like having a big innings. It really does seem like sometimes he goes out there in a test to get 50......

 

[Craig]

In the last year or two he has been far more selective outside offstump and more willing to exercise the leave-alone. As such he has reaped the benefits of flying up the ODI rankings.

I haven't seen Trescothick bat in a while, but from what I've heard his lack of foot movement is really getting to be troublesome. Gayle is still pretty leadfooted but, as stated above, his shot selection has helped diminish the exposing of this flaw. When Trescothick debuted I distinctly remember that he had rather superb judgement on and outside offstump. It frustrated the hell out of the West Indian bowlers. Has he given this up or is it still part of his game?

When balls are pitched wide outside off stump, he plays a defensive shot to a ball that he isnt going to hit, to make sure he wont go and play some crazy shot.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

When balls are pitched wide outside off stump, he plays a defensive shot to a ball that he isnt going to hit, to make sure he wont go and play some crazy shot.

That's playing inside the line. That's how I remember Trescothick to be. Wavell Hinds has been like that lately too, but the first person I saw exercise that often was Adrian Griffith.

 

[marc71178]

Hmmm... Chris Gayle doesn't have the greatest technique, but he continues to score impressively.

Very impressively - he's number 1 at the moment!

 

[Richard]

That's playing inside the line. That's how I remember Trescothick to be. Wavell Hinds has been like that lately too, but the first person I saw exercise that often was Adrian Griffith.

Weird, that's exactly the same as me.
The first time I ever saw that leave was when Griffith came into the side at Lord's in 2000. I saw it again from another player just one Test later. Then that winter it became very clear that Hinds had practised it, he played it loads when he was recalled at The WACA.
Trescothick will always play that leave, it worked very well against Ambrose and Walsh, but his first-chance scores in that series nonetheless read: 3, 38*, 1, 7, 7. The catching should have frustrated the bowlers more than Trescothick's leave.
Trescothick often gets into trouble, as well as hitting in the air all the time, with not knowing whether to play that leave or actually try to hit the ball. Gillespie has been the best exponent of exploiting that flaw, I can think of at least 7 occasions when he's got it (even if not all the chances have been taken).