Why is it viewed as more important

[Starfighter]

It definitely sounds like an anecdote tbh, “I only ever saw Simpson drop one chance”

I'm guessing that was from Benaud's playing days too, not his entire career. In two tests' worth of highlights from 77/78 he drops at least three, plus a dolly at mid-off. His one-handed technique didn't work so well in his forties. Of course Benaud wasn't watching then as he went to broadcast WSC.

 

[ankitj]

Sobers' bowling > Imran's batting quite easily.

I think Imran's batting >= Sobers' bowling. Very difficult to consider Sobers' bowling better. It's the primary discipline where Sobers edges Imran. Overall, it's very marginally in Sobers' favour. I think I myself allow "expert opinion" and "peer rating" to impact my call here. Can see why someone might rate Imran higher too.

 

[Bolo.]

>ignored


>heart reacc

Essentially the same number of runs, but a very different conclusion on the value of the runs.

I think 16/17 runs may be overestimating the runs saved- a team with a great slip is usually going to have a good one too. Still handy though- maybe someone like Mark Waugh is handier than everyone but the best bats from his era.

 

[Coronis]

I'm guessing that was from Benaud's playing days too, not his entire career. In two tests' worth of highlights from 77/78 he drops at least three, plus a dolly at mid-off. His one-handed technique didn't work so well in his forties. Of course Benaud wasn't watching then as he went to broadcast WSC.

Yeah I don’t doubt his greatness in general but that specifically is more of an anecdotal thing.

 

[kyear2]

I'm guessing that was from Benaud's playing days too, not his entire career. In two tests' worth of highlights from 77/78 he drops at least three, plus a dolly at mid-off. His one-handed technique didn't work so well in his forties. Of course Benaud wasn't watching then as he went to broadcast WSC.

To be fair, he was old and away from the game for how long?

 

[subshakerz]

I think Imran's batting >= Sobers' bowling. Very difficult to consider Sobers' bowling better. It's the primary discipline where Sobers edges Imran. Overall, it's very marginally in Sobers' favour. I think I myself allow "expert opinion" and "peer rating" to impact my call here. Can see why someone might rate Imran higher too.

Agreed

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think Imran's batting >= Sobers' bowling. Very difficult to consider Sobers' bowling better. It's the primary discipline where Sobers edges Imran. Overall, it's very marginally in Sobers' favour. I think I myself allow "expert opinion" and "peer rating" to impact my call here. Can see why someone might rate Imran higher too.

I think Sobers' peak period where he was picking up 4 wpm @27 Avg for a good 7 years or so is significantly better than Imran's peak as a batsman . Imran's peak had the averages of a top quality batsman without the same level of run production (usually low runs/match or runs/series). Sobers' peak combined both good average and output of wickets of a very good bowler.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[smash84]

I think Sobers' peak period where he was picking up 4 wpm @27 Avg for a good 7 years or so is significantly better than Imran's peak as a batsman . Imran's peak had the averages of a top quality batsman without the same level of run production (usually low runs/match or runs/series). Sobers' peak combined both good average and output of wickets of a very good bowler.

View attachment 40029

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Makes me wonder how bad Sobers was outside this peak to average 35 overall.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Sobers' peak period where he was picking up 4 wpm @27 Avg for a good 7 years or so is significantly better than Imran's peak as a batsman . Imran's peak had the averages of a top quality batsman without the same level of run production (usually low runs/match or runs/series). Sobers' peak combined both good average and output of wickets of a very good bowler.

View attachment 40029

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Imran bat 89 to 91 > Sobers bowler 61 to 68 > Imran bat 80 to 88 > Sobers bowler 69 to 74 > Imran bat 71 to 79 = Sobers bowler 54 to 60

 

[smash84]

Makes me wonder how bad Sobers was outside this peak to average 35 overall.

And his atrocious bowling record against Pakistan doesn't get the spotlight it deserves.

 

[kyear2]

I think Sobers' peak period where he was picking up 4 wpm @27 Avg for a good 7 years or so is significantly better than Imran's peak as a batsman . Imran's peak had the averages of a top quality batsman without the same level of run production (usually low runs/match or runs/series). Sobers' peak combined both good average and output of wickets of a very good bowler.

View attachment 40029

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Yeah, as a bowler Sobers was just ahead of Imran as a batsman, as discussed above Imran's average was quite soft and not representative of output.

As an overall cricketer? Sobers was comfortably ahead on primary skill and when his slip fielding is included it's quite comfortable.

A top 3 or 4 batsman, a bowler of unmatched versatility and possibly a top 5 slip fielder in one package is just stupid.

With regards to how atrocious he was outside of his peak? Well that was between the ages of 17 and 20 when he was bowling his least effective style of bowling and acclimatizing to an adults game, and near the end of a career where he broke down a little from being a top order batsman while bowling more overs in his test and FC career than Imran did.

With regards to his Pakistan record, one such series is where he scored his triple hundred, and Hanif his as well on pitches that were 1930's flat. Pretty sure he was still blowing spin as well.

That's not to mention that Fazal, a world class seamer averaged 38 with a s/r of 96 in the Caribbean.

 

[ankitj]

Imran's peak had the averages of a top quality batsman without the same level of run production (usually low runs/match or runs/series).

He is a bowling all-rounder after all. Think of this is as better than Jadeja in last 5-6 years. And Imran's good phase can be said to have lasted 10 years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He is a bowling all-rounder after all. Think of this is as better than Jadeja in last 5-6 years. And Imran's good phase can be said to have lasted 10 years.

View attachment 40033

Yes, I'm talking about production though. Imran was less than 50 runs per test in this period which is far far below the output of a proper specialist batsman's contribution. The average is eye popping, but actual output is not as impressive as Sobers taking 4 wickets a game.

Part of it is workload too. Sobers, a batting all rounder was bowling more overs a game than Imran, a bowling all rounder.

 

[subshakerz]

With regards to how atrocious he was outside of his peak? Well that was between the ages of 17 and 20 when he was bowling his least effective style of bowling and acclimatizing to an adults game, and near the end of a career where he broke down a little from being a top order batsman while bowling more overs in his test and FC career than Imran did.

With regards to his Pakistan record, one such series is where he scored his triple hundred, and Hanif his as well on pitches that were 1930's flat. Pretty sure he was still blowing spin as well.

That's not to mention that Fazal, a world class seamer averaged 38 with a s/r of 96 in the Caribbean.

Just noting the ease you are able to contextualise the gaps and blemishes in Sobers' record yet not Imran's.

 

[kyear2]

The difficult art of slip catching

Slip catching holds the key to a team's success in Test cricket..Shikhar Dhawan. Test Cricket. Slip Catching. England

www.onmanorama.com

Never read this before today, but it's basically straight forward to anyone who watches the game and who observed those two great teams in history.

Anyways, since very few are likely to read it...

 

[subshakerz]

The difficult art of slip catching

Slip catching holds the key to a team's success in Test cricket..Shikhar Dhawan. Test Cricket. Slip Catching. England

www.onmanorama.com

Never read this before today, but it's basically straight forward to anyone who watches the game and who observed those two great teams in history.

Anyways, since very few are likely to read it...



View attachment 40034

Irrelevant because you havent given examples of how this will practically affect your selection in an ATG team.

 

[kyear2]

Jesus wept

 

[Socerer 01]

The difficult art of slip catching

Slip catching holds the key to a team's success in Test cricket..Shikhar Dhawan. Test Cricket. Slip Catching. England

www.onmanorama.com

Never read this before today, but it's basically straight forward to anyone who watches the game and who observed those two great teams in history.

Anyways, since very few are likely to read it...



View attachment 40034

idk who even knew of this publication before

 

[subshakerz]

idk who even knew of this publication before

Doesnt matter, at this point Kyear2 is throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks with posters.

 

[ankitj]

Makes me wonder how bad Sobers was outside this peak to average 35 overall.

Averaged 41