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Who is the no.1 spinner of the Post Packer Era?

Who will your spinner for the Post Packer XI?


  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Breakdown of nationality (or presumed nationality) of who's voted for whom is interesting. Most Australian posters have voted for Warne, but non-Australians seem evenly split, and there are at least 3 Aussie votes going to Murali by my figures. In previous polls on this the Aussie/non-Aussie split has more closely aligned with Warne/Murali's votes IIRC.
I voted for Murali as I always do when I see a poll like this because I think he was/is a better bowler (this is usually the question). However, upon thinking about it more closely, I'd take Warne in my team ahead of him for non-bowling factors. The difference in their bowling is extremely marginal and is, for mine, eclipsed by the leadership qualities, genuine cricketing naus, slips catching and I suppose ocassional batting posessed by Warne.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
The unfortunate headlines Warne produces are also fairer game for mockery than Murali's. :ph34r: Easier to bag someone for being a tosser than a chucker without getting into a fight. ;)
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I don't understand why we have to pick a spinner. Can't we just have a poll of four best bowlers? And everyone can decide who they want - some may want two spinners, some may want all fast bwolers.
 

bagapath

International Captain
I don't understand why we have to pick a spinner. Can't we just have a poll of four best bowlers? And everyone can decide who they want - some may want two spinners, some may want all fast bwolers.
knowing your opinion on spinners, this is tough one for me to answer. let me try.

i personally would think no team is complete without at least one spinner; i grew up watching the great west indies team dominate world cricket. but they never won a series in pakistan or new zealand at their peak. australia beat everyone at home and away and warne had a significant role to play almost every time. you can attribute it to the greatness of warne and not take it as an advertisement of spin. but i take that as the biggest difference between the 80s WI teams and the recent australian teams. (the next big difference is gilly).

with an all-rounder who can bowl fast you may very well end up with four fast bowlers if you want. having five fast bowlers is an unnecessary and dumb tactic especially when murali/warne/kumble/saqlain were waiting to be selected.

i have seen so many matches in india decided only by spin bowling. the same is true for most sub continental pitches. we know what happened to lillee when he toured pakistan.

just like you need fast bowlers for the new ball, and a specialist glove man to keep wickets, and openers to start your innings, you also need a specialist spinner to handle the old ball and also dominate the last two days when the wicket starts to crumble.

every serious cricket expert devoted a slot for spinners in their dream teams. we should continue to do that too.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
knowing your opinion on spinners, this is tough one for me to answer. let me try.

i personally would think no team is complete without at least one spinner; i grew up watching the great west indies team dominate world cricket. but they never won a series in pakistan or new zealand at their peak. australia beat everyone at home and away and warne had a significant role to play almost every time. you can attribute it to the greatness of warne and not take it as an advertisement of spin. but i take that as the biggest difference between the 80s WI teams and the recent australian teams. (the next big difference is gilly).

with an all-rounder who can bowl fast you may very well end up with four fast bowlers if you want. having five fast bowlers is an unnecessary and dumb tactic especially when murali/warne/kumble/saqlain were waiting to be selected.

i have seen so many matches in india decided only by spin bowling. the same is true for most sub continental pitches. we know what happened to lillee when he toured pakistan.

just like you need fast bowlers for the new ball, and a specialist glove man to keep wickets, and openers to start your innings, you also need a specialist spinner to handle the old ball and also dominate the last two days when the wicket starts to crumble.
I don't disagree with any of that, but I do think it should be a choice. It should be up to the voters to agree or disagree with that assessment, IMO.
 

bagapath

International Captain
I don't disagree with any of that, but I do think it should be a choice. It should be up to the voters to agree or disagree with that assessment, IMO.
ok. we can try this method for the pre packer XI and see how it works. will reduce the number of polls and all the bowling related discussion can be done in one thread.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
knowing your opinion on spinners, this is tough one for me to answer. let me try.

i personally would think no team is complete without at least one spinner; i grew up watching the great west indies team dominate world cricket. but they never won a series in pakistan or new zealand at their peak. australia beat everyone at home and away and warne had a significant role to play almost every time. you can attribute it to the greatness of warne and not take it as an advertisement of spin. but i take that as the biggest difference between the 80s WI teams and the recent australian teams. (the next big difference is gilly).

with an all-rounder who can bowl fast you may very well end up with four fast bowlers if you want. having five fast bowlers is an unnecessary and dumb tactic especially when murali/warne/kumble/saqlain were waiting to be selected.

i have seen so many matches in india decided only by spin bowling. the same is true for most sub continental pitches. we know what happened to lillee when he toured pakistan.

just like you need fast bowlers for the new ball, and a specialist glove man to keep wickets, and openers to start your innings, you also need a specialist spinner to handle the old ball and also dominate the last two days when the wicket starts to crumble.

every serious cricket expert devoted a slot for spinners in their dream teams. we should continue to do that too.
Well no one is stopping you from picking a spinner if you want, but the choice should be there. Secondly, there have been fast bowlers in history who have a fourth innings record comparable, if not better than, most spinners. And they're much more effective on the first three days.

Cricket orthodoxy has been wrong many times in the past, and I do not claim higher knowledge than everyone, but the fact is that an argument can be made and if people don't buy into it, that's fair enough and they can choose to pick a spinner.

Incidentally, you also prevent people from choosing two spinners, if they want. That idea to me is ludicrous, but I'm sure some people would pick it based on their reasoning. If this is going to be a true CW Post-Packer XI, it should allow for more freedom in that sense.

Another are is the role of an all rounder - the two greatest dynasties in history did not have one. So you should have to freedom to select a non all rounder at the number six spot (which you allowed people to do). It's the same thing here. Cricket orthodoxy says that 'ideally', you'd have an all rounder at six or seven - but maybe WI and Aus were better without it and better off depending on the purely batting strength of their top six, and the wicket taking ability of four pure bowlers. It's an argument that can be made, same with spinners vs. fast bowlers.
 

JBH001

International Regular
Yeah, I support SS and PEWS on this one. Although I accept bagapath's reasoning and his right to run his poll as he wishes.

It would allow for a greater range of options to be able to have 6 batsman, 4 bowlers, 2 spinners, 5 batsman, 5 bowlers, and so on.
 

bagapath

International Captain
Incidentally, you also prevent people from choosing two spinners, if they want.
no. I dont. you can choose a spinner as your fourth bowler. when the runner up from the spinner's poll is available as an option, along with runners up from the fast bowlers poll and the no.6 poll, you can select a pacer, or spinner or an allrounder. the forum members have all the freedom that they want. so dont worry about that. there is nothing ludicrous happening here.

other than forcing you to choose one spinner in the team i dont see too many prob with this methodology.
 

JBH001

International Regular
Breakdown of nationality (or presumed nationality) of who's voted for whom is interesting. Most Australian posters have voted for Warne, but non-Australians seem evenly split, and there are at least 3 Aussie votes going to Murali by my figures. In previous polls on this the Aussie/non-Aussie split has more closely aligned with Warne/Murali's votes IIRC.
I have to say that I came very close to voting for Warne on this one, but seeing as Murali is a tamil boy like myself, I could not bring myself to not vote for him. But PEWS above has summarised some of the reasons why there are good grounds for selecting Warne above Murali in a poll of this kind.
 

JBH001

International Regular
no. I dont. you can choose a spinner as your fourth bowler. when the runner up from the spinner's poll is available as an option, along with runners up from the fast bowlers poll and the no.6 pol,l your can select a pacer, or spinner or an allrounder. the forum members have all the freedom that they want. so dont worry about that. there is nothing ludicrous happening here.

other than forcing you to choose one spinner in the team i dont see too many prob with this methodology.
Hmm, thats true bagapath. I had forgotten about that. Just sat down at my desk, so brain cells are not firing yet.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I don't mean to imply that it isn't, and I enjoy picking sides, I'm just suggesting more freedom, especially when we do the pre-packer XI :).
 

bagapath

International Captain
I don't mean to imply that it isn't, and I enjoy picking sides, I'm just suggesting more freedom, especially when we do the pre-packer XI :).
done. we will go for four bowlers and 3 middle order bats. leave last place between allrounders, top batting runner up and top bowling runner up. may be top 2 runners up.

thinking of post ww 2 to apr 10, 1979 . what do you think?
 

JBH001

International Regular
Yeah, that sounds good to me. Anything more would be harder to tabulate and lead to too large a pool of players. I also think we need to set a reasonable cut off for tests played and runs scored. This is because I think we need to exclude Bradman from the side as that would be far too boring, imo. This also means, however, the possible deselection of Hutton. That makes me a little sad, but I guess we have to be consistent. This depends, of couse, on what others think too.
 

bagapath

International Captain
i've some ideas. planning to start it over the weekend. hopefully we will wrap this team by then.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, that sounds good to me. Anything more would be harder to tabulate and lead to too large a pool of players. I also think we need to set a reasonable cut off for tests played and runs scored. This is because I think we need to exclude Bradman from the side as that would be far too boring, imo. This also means, however, the possible deselection of Hutton. That makes me a little sad, but I guess we have to be consistent. This depends, of couse, on what others think too.
I can't see how Hutton would miss out - he played the vast majority of his Test cricket after WWII.
 

archie mac

International Coach
done. we will go for four bowlers and 3 middle order bats. leave last place between allrounders, top batting runner up and top bowling runner up. may be top 2 runners up.

thinking of post ww 2 to apr 10, 1979 . what do you think?
Sound good to me, although the stats boys will have even more fun, with most of these players unseen by them8-)

I think we only have one person on here who watched cricket in the 50s, I make the 70s, but LT would have watched the 60s?
 

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