Who is The Greatest West Indies Batsman of All Time

[smash84]

You do realise this makes it less likely for people to take your opinion seriously...

****....I only realized this later....but you do have a point here

We took Smali's opinion seriously in the first place?

 

[smash84]

Such an awesomely ironic post, this

(I don't mean no-one takes you seriously btw; it's just dat syntax...)

 

[harsh.ag]

I have to admit that this is a hell of a lot closer than I would have thought considering that almost everyone has Viv in their world ATXI. Even Kyear2 has him there ahead of Headley.
Perhaps this is because a) Headley was a pure number 3, and people feel he should not be taken at another position or b) Perhaps being the better batsman doesn't necessarily make you a better pick for a world ATXI team based on other considerations or c) Since Viv and Sobers are already there, people may not want to put 3 West-Indians in the middle order of the world XI.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Also the luxury of having a guy like Viv bat in an All Time XI. He might be viewed by some people as a more "risky" player to have, knowing that he will bat in his famed fashion, but with the strength around him in an AT side, people are prepared to take that risk.

 

[bagapath]

I am sure smali wants to vote for Imran in this poll

 

[bagapath]

i think headley, sobers, viv and lara are absolute equals. any one of them and weeks, walcott, worrel could murder any bowling attack on a given day. these 7 batters are likely to enjoy such days more often than other giants like greenidge or nurse.

it is impossible to split the top four in terms of stats, style or impact. it will just have to be based on personal bias. i go for viv.

 

[L Trumper]

Right now it is 10 10 9 8. Even split really, I don't think we can really differentiate them.

 

[Red]

I generally select both Sobers and Viv in my ATG team.

I consider Sobers to be the 2nd best batsman ever, after the obvious. I consider Viv to be someone I really want in my team. If he is coming in at #5 in an ATG team after the openers, Bradman and the #4 have batted for a few hours, he will absolutely **** down the throat of the bowling attack. Have never seen another batsman that hits harder than Viv.

Imran is on record as saying that Viv is the only batsman that intimidated him. I like that.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Headley didn't play enough and I don't know much about him anyway. Of the others I would go Lara. The quality of bowlers he faced was incomparable : Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Bond, Mcgrath, Lee, Gillespie. Viv and Sobers faced some great fast bowlers, the former in particular, but neither faced as many as the quality mentioned above.Lara also tamed Warne and Murali, the two greatest spinners ever; and also Kumble who was a very good spinner in his own right and third on the all time list of spinners with most wickets. If you go for a team vs team comparison, Australia, Pakistan and India had comfortably stronger bowling attacks in Lara's time. Lara also faced and conquered Donald and Pollock in full cry - no RSA in Viv's time, that's another plus as he played and succeeded against a strong attack Viv didn't. There was negligible difference in the Pommie and Kiwi attacks and you wouldn't be wrong arguing for either. Vaas and Murali in Sri Lanka were Gods and Lara was in full cry against them in 2001. Another great attack Lara played and had success against...on that basis, Lara. Viv a close second and Sobers third.

 

[Red]

Of the others I would go Lara. The quality of bowlers he faced was incomparable : Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Bond, Mcgrath, Lee, Gillespie. Viv and Sobers faced some great fast bowlers, the former in particular, but neither faced as many as the quality mentioned above.

I think if you just make a blanket list of fast bowlers faced by Viv it's just as impressive as those faced by Lara. Viv faced...

Lillee, Thomson, Snow, Willis, Botham (in his prime), Imran, Wasim & Hadlee.

 

[aussie tragic]

This seems to be the Test he dropped down from 3 to 4, and it also coincided with Richie Richardson's first extended run in the Test side (it was Richardson's second Test, and Viv in fact batted four in Richardson's first Test too).

Viv turned 32 in this Test, so maybe it was just the time to move down the order and have a much younger #3?

Also, 8 months later he moved down again to #5, so maybe it was getting harder as he started his decline (his average was 54 when he moved to # 5, down from 59 only 18 months earlier)

 

[Red]

Viv turned 32 in this Test, so maybe it was just the time to move down the order and have a much younger #3?

Also, 8 months later he moved down again to #5, so maybe it was getting harder as he started his decline (his average was 54 when he moved to # 5, down from 59 only 18 months earlier)

That big average drop was probably to do with the fact he was an "eye" player.

 

[kyear2]

I have to admit that this is a hell of a lot closer than I would have thought considering that almost everyone has Viv in their world ATXI. Even Kyear2 has him there ahead of Headley.
Perhaps this is because a) Headley was a pure number 3, and people feel he should not be taken at another position or b) Perhaps being the better batsman doesn't necessarily make you a better pick for a world ATXI team based on other considerations or c) Since Viv and Sobers are already there, people may not want to put 3 West-Indians in the middle order of the world XI.

A mixture of all of those points. I do belive that he was a specialist #3 and I also belive in playing players from different teams and era's and Headley played in the same era as Bradman and also didn't want to have 3 West Indians in the middle order and Viv with his intimidation, aggression and ability to destroy an attack mixes well between Bradman and Tendulkar. Viv also brough more to the team with his slip and over all fielding, and when the the difference in batting is so minute, its those little nuances that makes the difference in selection.

 

[Teja.]

Headley, for me. Both Headley and Sobers are two of the five batsmen who, in my estimation, are arguably the best after the Don but what separates Headley is his absolutely monstrous FC record.

He averaged 70 over his 24-year FC career, considerably over that for his peak decade and averaged a ton every other game in test cricket.

One might actually question whether him averaging 60 in tests in a small sample size of matches actually deceives his ability as opposed to the accusations of statistical flattery that most small sample sizes are met with.

 

[harsh.ag]

Headley, for me. Both Headley and Sobers are two of the five batsmen who, in my estimation, are arguably the best after the Don but what separates Headley is his absolutely monstrous FC record.

He averaged 70 over his 24-year FC career, considerably over that for his peak decade and averaged a ton every other game in test cricket.

One might actually question whether him averaging 60 in tests in a small sample size of matches actually deceives his ability as opposed to the accusations of statistical flattery that most small sample sizes are met with.

The thing is, with regards to the FC career, people like Vijay Merchant too had a similar record (over a 22 year period in the same era), and it should be remembered that Headley played the whole of his FC Career in the Caribbean, whose cricketing standards at that point of time were not particularly exalted. That is not to say that he isn't as great as the others. Just saying.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Not the whole of his career, the tours then were longer so there would have been more matches against Australian states and English counties?

Or did he not travel at all?

 

[Eds]

Not the whole of his career, the tours then were longer so there would have been more matches against Australian states and English counties?

Or did he not travel at all?

The Home of CricketArchive

This tends to agree with you. On his sole tour of Australia, as well as Test matches, he played New South Wales twice, Victoria twice, South Australia twice, Queensland and Tasmania. Obviously the choice of opponent was far higher when touring England, but he still played a similar quantity of warm-up matches. It was generally more of a tour than a Test series, back then.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

The thing is, with regards to the FC career, people like Vijay Merchant too had a similar record (over a 22 year period in the same era), and it should be remembered that Headley played the whole of his FC Career in the Caribbean, whose cricketing standards at that point of time were not particularly exalted. That is not to say that he isn't as great as the others. Just saying.

Headley played as professional for Haslingden in Lancashire League though. He was very successful there and broke the most runs scored by a batsman in one season.

 

[ankitj]

Love the even distribution. There's no other side that will have such an even contest been these many contenders for the title of the best batsman.

 

[harsh.ag]

Not the whole of his career, the tours then were longer so there would have been more matches against Australian states and English counties?

Or did he not travel at all?

Headley played as professional for Haslingden in Lancashire League though. He was very successful there and broke the most runs scored by a batsman in one season.

Yup, I have managed to be quite a dunce and not taken those FC matches on the English and Australian tours and the Lancashire League into account. My bad.