Who is the best since Bradman?

[Coronis]

Most test with 60+ career average -
1- Sutcliffe -54
2- don Bradman -49
3- spd Smith -43

Top 10 posts of the year imo.

 

[pardus]

Of the modern day batsmen (batsmen who played majority of their career after 1970), to me, it is really subjective as to who is the greatest.
I don’t think there is any one batsman as “unambiguously the greatest”.
They all have their strengths and weaknesses in their CVs.
It depends on what one’s subjective preferences are, as well as, what one's positive/negative biases are.
To each their own.

This is why even great bowlers of the same era differ in their choices of who they think are the best/greatest.
For example, in a lot of interviews Jason Gillespie consistently named Lara as the best batsman he bowled to while Brett Lee named Tendulkar.

Coming back to Steve Smith, despite all the great stats, to me, Steve Smith lacks the X factor. Again that’s just me.
He reminds me a bit of Steve Waugh but I felt Waugh was tougher.

Starting from 1993 Ashes, Waugh too had several great series performances against some of the toughest attacks of the 90s.
In the 90s, Waugh had multiple Test series against each of - Donald & Pollock, Wasim & Waqar, and Ambrose & Walsh where he averaged 50+.
And he did this, for the most part, while above great bowlers were at their peak (albeit you could probably make an exception for post-shoulder-surgery Ambrose).

Waugh's stats and consistency against these great attacks in the 90s are far better than, say what Tendulkar or Lara accomplished against the same attacks.
But very few, if any, rank Waugh above Tendulkar as the greatest batsman of that decade.
Not that, it is wrong or idiotic or blasphemous to rank Waugh that high, but most don't. Just their subjective preference.

Few years back I recall Smith ranking very high in one of DoG's greatest batsmen list posted here on CW. IIRC Smith was only behind Bradman and Hobbs in that list. In that sense, it might not be outlandish to make a claim for him. But since then Smith's performances have come down rapidly, not sure where he would rank now using DoG's formula.

 

[honestbharani]

Bradman


Sobers
Lara
Sachin
Smith

Rest

 

[Coronis]

Of the modern day batsmen (batsmen who played majority of their career after 1970), to me, it is really subjective as to who is the greatest.
I don’t think there is any one batsman as “unambiguously the greatest”.
They all have their strengths and weaknesses in their CVs.
It depends on what one’s subjective preferences are, as well as, what one's positive/negative biases are.
To each their own.

This is why even great bowlers of the same era differ in their choices of who they think are the best/greatest.
For example, in a lot of interviews Jason Gillespie consistently named Lara as the best batsman he bowled to while Brett Lee named Tendulkar.

Coming back to Steve Smith, despite all the great stats, to me, Steve Smith lacks the X factor. Again that’s just me.
He reminds me a bit of Steve Waugh but I felt Waugh was tougher.

Starting from 1993 Ashes, Waugh too had several great series performances against some of the toughest attacks of the 90s.
In the 90s, Waugh had multiple Test series against each of - Donald & Pollock, Wasim & Waqar, and Ambrose & Walsh where he averaged 50+.
And he did this, for the most part, while above great bowlers were at their peak (albeit you could probably make an exception for post-shoulder-surgery Ambrose).

Waugh's stats and consistency against these great attacks in the 90s are far better than, say what Tendulkar or Lara accomplished against the same attacks.
But very few, if any, rank Waugh above Tendulkar as the greatest batsman of that decade.
Not that, it is wrong or idiotic or blasphemous to rank Waugh that high, but most don't. Just their subjective preference.

Few years back I recall Smith ranking very high in one of DoG's greatest batsmen list posted here on CW. IIRC Smith was only behind Bradman and Hobbs in that list. In that sense, it might not be outlandish to make a claim for him. But since then Smith's performances have come down rapidly, not sure where he would rank now using DoG's formula.

@Days of Grace magnificent thread was in late 2019 leading into early 2020 and @Prince EWS standardised averages (also kinda magnificent) was also last updated after the 2019 Ashes.

For the Fab Four (standardised average in brackets - note this is not the only factor that accounts for their final ranking)

DoG’s Rankings
Smith - 3 (60.07)
Kohli - 17 (52.01)
Root - 34 (47.48)
Williamson - 36 (48.92)

PEWS
Kohli - 31 (54.45)
Smith - 41 (57.63)
Williamson - 50 (49.25)
Root - 68 (50.48)

Since the start of 2020 they average respectively…

Williamson - 64.37
Root - 54.49
Smith - 43.61
Kohli - 30.72



(also sorry for derailing this shithole of a thread)

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Smith isn’t even close to Tendulkar

 

[Coronis]

Smith isn’t even close to Tendulkar

I personally don’t rank him that high. But I don’t think its outlandish to suggest it at all.

 

[Johan]

Smith isn’t even close to Tendulkar

ight that's a lil whack

 

[Narayana]

Smith isn’t even close to Tendulkar

Most test with 60+ career average -
1- Sutcliffe -54
2- don Bradman -49
3- spd Smith -43

Most consecutive test with 55+ test AVG
1- Steve Smith -77*
2- Gary sobers -74
3- sachin tendulkar -65
4- ponting -56
It is quite funny when someone says Sachin was more consistent than Steve Smith.

Sachin got around 1700-1800 free runs at around 90 AVG against farmers,
In current era every team has a bowler with<28 bowling average.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I can't shake off the feeling that Narayana is a multi......

 

[Narayana]

I can't shake off the feeling that Narayana is a multi......

It is fair to say sachin, or other players of his era are not even close to Steve Smith because of those highway era, they used to get.

Sachin Played in highway home pitches for 24 years, spd Smith Played only for few years (2014-2017).

 

[Johan]

I can't shake off the feeling that Narayana is a multi......

multi what

 

[capt_Luffy]

It is fair to say sachin, or other players of his era are not even close to Steve Smith because of those highway era, they used to get.

Sachin Played in highway home pitches for 24 years, spd Smith Played only for few years (2014-2017).

And he scored most of his runs in those flat pitches, while Sachin did splendid away in the roaring 90s.....

 

[Johan]

Sachin Played in highway home pitches for 24 years, spd Smith Played only for few years (2014-2017).

90s India was not high ways, it was spin friendly, the Indian batters like Sidhu, Sachin and Azharuddin just murdered spin so well that iirc India was not bested at home for a decade or so, @capt_Luffy can correct me as he knows more about Indian cricket.

 

[Narayana]

And he scored most of his runs in those flat pitches, while Sachin did splendid away in the roaring 90s.....

Didn't you saw the 90s dominance of sachin in my 1st post.
Against farmers of NZ,sl, Eng -2990 runs at 76 AVG with 13 centuries.
Against top 4 - 5 centuries at 44

Steve Smith record since 2018 is better than him.

 

[capt_Luffy]

90s India was not high ways, it was spin friendly, the Indian batters like Sidhu, Sachin and Azharuddin just murdered spin so well that iirc India was not bested at home for a decade or so, @capt_Luffy can correct me as he knows more about Indian cricket.

90s Indian pacers also have Great record at home as well

In the 90s:

Srinath: 77 @24.88
Prasad: 27 @27.48
Prabhakar: 22 @28.22
Dev: 20 @20
Kuruvilla: 8 @22.5

They are all the Indian pacers who took atleast 5 wickets at home. Next is Sourav with 4@31 and then no one else got 3.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Didn't you saw the 90s dominance of sachin in my 1st post.
Against farmers of NZ,sl, Eng -2990 runs at 76 AVG with 13 centuries.
Against top 4 - 5 centuries at 44

Steve Smith record since 2018 is better than him.

Truth be told, No. I don't have the energy for that, just enjoying the show.

 

[Johan]

90s Indian pacers also have Great record at home as well

In the 90s:

Srinath: 77 @24.88
Prasad: 27 @27.48
Prabhakar: 22 @28.22
Dev: 20 @20
Kuruvilla: 8 @22.5

They are all the Indian pacers who took atleast 5 wickets at home. Next is Sourav with 4@31 and then no one else got 3.

Cutter spam go brrrrrrrrrr

 

[Johan]

Didn't you saw the 90s dominance of sachin in my 1st post.
Against farmers of NZ,sl, Eng -2990 runs at 76 AVG with 13 centuries.
Against top 4 - 5 centuries at 44

Steve Smith record since 2018 is better than him.

there are some legit criticisms to Sachin like his SA record, Pak record and 2000s record, and then there is this nonsense.

 

[Narayana]

90s India was not high ways, it was spin friendly, the Indian batters like Sidhu, Sachin and Azharuddin just murdered spin so well that iirc India was not bested at home for a decade or so, @capt_Luffy can correct me as he knows more about Indian cricket.

In current era spinners Averages the lowest since 1950
Even 2010 more spinners friendly than 90s highway

In last 2 years (feb2-2023 - 19 jan -2025)
Spin AVG is only 30 , which is extremely low
.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...bowling_average;template=results;type=bowling

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Johan]

In current era spinners Averages the lowest since 1950
Even 2010 more spinners friendly than 90s highway

In last 2 years (feb2-2023 - 19 jan -2025)
Spin AVG is only 30 , which is extremely low
.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...bowling_average;template=results;type=bowling

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

this is mostly due to India and Pakistan laying out weird turners, Smith hasn't played in either