Who Is The Best English Batsman of All-Time?

[marc71178]

to be honest I havent really followed this thread that much...but JARDINE?????

The thread hasn't followed the topic though!

 

[Richard]

And why are they stated as that, because you've decided so?

Still going to ignore the others then as well?

I've decided so - and you are free to decide otherwise. Wouldn't make much sense, though - if you really think piscine's opinion of me counts for anything you've not really got much sense.
Nor if you think a couple of people making a complaint or two having never had any prior problems means anything.

 

[Richard]

However you do not know what his plan is or anything - so therefore you do not know if he is bowling to it or not, so you do not know how he is bowling.

It is impossible for you to know more about Flintoff's bowling than he himself does - the sooner you accept it, the more likely it is that people will start to give you some respect.

It is not impossible for me to know more about the deliveries Flintoff has bowled than himself.
The sooner people realise that - and not plans that he may or may not be putting into action by not bowling very well - is what matters, the more people may actually realise that I'm making perfect sense.
Instead, because Flintoff has decided - without any sense - that something happened somewhere I'm not allowed to disagree in your mind because I can't possibly know more about it.

 

[Richard]

err... no....you cannot properly judge a product without analyzing the inputs....besides flintoff is not an inanimate object incapable of analyzing himself, he is a human being just like you and is more capable of analyzing the product, himself than you....just like he would have less insight into what went into the making of "first-chance average" richard than you....

Yet we are equally capable of analyzing the product, whether knowing the inputs or not.

 

[Richard]

ehhh...

maybe experience is inversly proportional to age...

Richard..you will learn eventually

Why does there have to be any proportion?
Maybe you might learn why not eventually.
Some people watch more in their years, some less.
Hence, a 28-year-old will not neccessarily have more experience than a 19-year-old - because the 19-year-old may well have devoted more of his 19 years to cricket-watching than the 28-year-old devoted his 28 years to.
See?
Or does the fact that it cannot be explained by mathematical law mean that this is incomprehensible?

 

[Anil]

Yet we are equally capable of analyzing the product, whether knowing the inputs or not.

at a very superficial level....if you base your "expert" opinions and findings on such superficial analysis, the quality of those findings will be comparatively poor, i guess that's why you try to sell your "results" in bulk on CW...

 

[marc71178]

I've decided so - and you are free to decide otherwise. Wouldn't make much sense, though - if you really think piscine's opinion of me counts for anything you've not really got much sense.

So we now have to discount his opinion of you because you've decided it's not worth anything?

And what gives you the right to decide whose opinions are valid?

Nor if you think a couple of people making a complaint or two having never had any prior problems means anything.

Hmm, it could mean that they're getting tired of you and your arrogance, having previously tolerated it - had you thought of that?

 

[marc71178]

It is not impossible for me to know more about the deliveries Flintoff has bowled than himself.

No, it is, because you are not there doing it or practising it - what is so hard to understand about that?

Instead, because Flintoff has decided - without any sense - that something happened somewhere I'm not allowed to disagree in your mind because I can't possibly know more about it.

No, because you're not there, you've not been training with him or anything - so how do you know more than the actual man himeself?

 

[Swervy]

Why does there have to be any proportion?
Maybe you might learn why not eventually.
Some people watch more in their years, some less.
Hence, a 28-year-old will not neccessarily have more experience than a 19-year-old - because the 19-year-old may well have devoted more of his 19 years to cricket-watching than the 28-year-old devoted his 28 years to.
See?
Or does the fact that it cannot be explained by mathematical law mean that this is incomprehensible?

didnt realise experience came down to how much cricket one watched..

I was talking more about LIFE Richard.....if you want an explanation of what one of those is, I will try my best for you

 

[BoyBrumby]

Just a side note, I've generally regarded Richard's insistence on knowing Flintoff better than Flintoff as one of his endearing eccentricities (!), but in light of Fred being prepared to bowl thru the pain barrier with an ankle shot full of cortisone & a worsening ab tear I think it's becoming faintly insulting to the guy.

Ultimately Fred is potentially putting his long term health on the line, which to me is a tremendous effort, above & beyond the call of duty. So, unless anyone has bowled in a test with the (cricketing) world watching whilst you literally put your body on the line, I don't think anyone can claim to know his bowling better than him.

 

[SJS]

Just a side note, I've generally regarded Richard's insistence on knowing Flintoff better than Flintoff as one of his endearing eccentricities (!),

Whose ?

Fred's or Richard's ?

 

[Anil]

Just a side note, I've generally regarded Richard's insistence on knowing Flintoff better than Flintoff as one of his endearing eccentricities (!),

you must really be a very, very patient man to regard those as "endearing eccentricities"....

 

[marc71178]

Maybe he's just more tolerant of arrogance.

 

[Richard]

at a very superficial level....if you base your "expert" opinions and findings on such superficial analysis, the quality of those findings will be comparatively poor, i guess that's why you try to sell your "results" in bulk on CW...

How do you know it's superficial?

 

[Richard]

So we now have to discount his opinion of you because you've decided it's not worth anything?

And what gives you the right to decide whose opinions are valid?

Nothing of the sort - I've not decided it, I've simply said that you can tell quite clearly if you've any sense that what he thinks of me doesn't matter in the slightest.

Hmm, it could mean that they're getting tired of you and your arrogance, having previously tolerated it - had you thought of that?

Nope, because I find it totally inconceivable that anyone could get sick of something they've tolerated for a year and more.
Especially when I've met one of them and they've done more than simply "tolerated" me, more got on very well.

 

[Richard]

No, it is, because you are not there doing it or practising it - what is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing - if you look carefully you'll see I've always understood that.
What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter.

No, because you're not there, you've not been training with him or anything - so how do you know more than the actual man himeself?

Because I've watched what he's bowled in the matches as clearly as he has.

 

[Richard]

didnt realise experience came down to how much cricket one watched..

I was talking more about LIFE Richard.....if you want an explanation of what one of those is, I will try my best for you

Well if you think a 15-year-old who's been "through the mill" of God-knows-what (read Bob Appleyard's biography, for instance) has less "life experience" than a 32-year-old who's been mollycoddled all his days, you're equally delusional.
Of course experience of cricket comes largely down to how much of it you've watched - the more you've watched, the more situations you've seen, the more diversity you've gained knowledge of... I'd have thought that was incredibly obvious.
Age does not equal experience, in any field, there are many, many other factors - including perceptiveness and memory in no small measure.

 

[Richard]

Just a side note, I've generally regarded Richard's insistence on knowing Flintoff better than Flintoff as one of his endearing eccentricities (!), but in light of Fred being prepared to bowl thru the pain barrier with an ankle shot full of cortisone & a worsening ab tear I think it's becoming faintly insulting to the guy.

Ultimately Fred is potentially putting his long term health on the line, which to me is a tremendous effort, above & beyond the call of duty. So, unless anyone has bowled in a test with the (cricketing) world watching whilst you literally put your body on the line, I don't think anyone can claim to know his bowling better than him.

What does any of this have to do with the actual content of the deliveries?
I've never claimed to know as much about Flintoff as he does in anything other than the deliveries he's bowled.
And sorry, the fact is, I do.

 

[marc71178]

Nothing of the sort - I've not decided it, I've simply said that you can tell quite clearly if you've any sense that what he thinks of me doesn't matter in the slightest.

Why does it not? Who are you to say his opinion doesn't matter?

Nope, because I find it totally inconceivable that anyone could get sick of something they've tolerated for a year and more.
Especially when I've met one of them and they've done more than simply "tolerated" me, more got on very well.

In which case I find it totally inconceivable that you've spoken to that person in the last couple of months.

 

[marc71178]

Because I've watched what he's bowled in the matches as clearly as he has.

You have watched the ball, but know nothing about the bowler.