Who is currently the best all-rounder at international level?

[greg]

On the evidence of this series Gilchrist's reputation is inflated due to not having batted against the World's best allround bowling attack before.

 

[superkingdave]

I'm living by present averages and statistics.

in that case Bell and Pietersen are among the best batsmen ever

 

[twctopcat]

I'm living by present averages and statistics.

Carving up zim and bang with dolly medium pacers hence maintaining your average doesn't really wash compared to roughing up a couple of aussie batsmen does it really????

 

[steds]

I'm living by present averages and statistics.

Like Kallis' 2 wickets in his last 4 tests?

 

[Shane Warne]

in that case Bell and Pietersen are among the best batsmen ever

With a minimum amount of matches taken into consideration.

Like, you know, as is normal.

 

[twctopcat]

Since the beginning of 2004 not including the zim matches kallis has taken 17 wickets in 18 wickets at an average of 64.52. In the same period of time freddy has taken 62 wickets in 17 matches at an average of 26.32 not including the bang tests, see the difference???

I'm not doubting Kallis' supreme talent as a batsmen, i don't think anyone is. But he can't be classed as a world class allrounder at present.

 

[superkingdave]

Jacques Kallis batt 32.61 bowl 39.68

Andrew Flintoff batt 36.00 Bowl 25.90

 

[Swervy]

Like Kallis' 2 wickets in his last 4 tests?

or in the last three yaers in tests not including B'desh and Zimbabwe..he has played 29 tests..taken 47 wickets at 44 a piece at a strke rate of about 80...absolute class bowling that

 

[Langeveldt]

That's a nice way to put your own spin on things by picking and chosing a few meaningless phrases, however I'll think I'll go with.

56.87 batting average and 31.60 bowling average over 31.57 & 33.65

Got it in one, remember lads "Form is temporary, Class is permanant"

*runs*

*comes back*

Oh, and most all rounders who are considered to be world class have a batting average above that of their bowling average..

 

[Scaly piscine]

Hmm no Taibu up there, I mean the guy does bowl, bat and keep wicket...

Anyway it's fairly obvious Flintoff is comfortably the best all-rounder around at the moment.

 

[Swervy]

Got it in one, remember lads "Form is temporary, Class is permanant"

*runs*

*comes back*

Oh, and most all rounders who are considered to be world class have a batting average above that of their bowling average..

well in the last three years Flintoffs has...and dont come out with the thing about Kallis' batting average exceeds his bowling average more than Flintoffs does in the last three years, because we all know as a bowling average tends toawrds the low 20's, the value of that bowling increases exponentially for every run the average drops...and so the value of an allrounder with a decent bowling average (which Flintoff has had in the last 3 yaers) and a good batting average is higher than an 'allrounder' with a very good average with the bat and a terrible average with the ball

Kallis is just not a test class bowler anymore..and so cannot be considered a great allrounder anymore, its no good looking at what he did when he was 25 or whatever..he hasnt got what it takes anymore with the ball

 

[twctopcat]

Got it in one, remember lads "Form is temporary, Class is permanant"

*runs*

*comes back*

Oh, and most all rounders who are considered to be world class have a batting average above that of their bowling average..

Come on Rich, you're looking at a small piece of the pie, you've got to zoom out *does best Gervais impression with hands*. I know career stats shouldn't be tampered with blah blah but going on past couple of years he is a 40 with bat and 25 with ball man. The rest of his career will show that. Kallis did bowl but can't to any great effect at the moment. For this reason, at present, he cannot be classed the best allrounder.

 

[greg]

It's difficult to see just what else Flintoff would have to do to convince people. Quote his unbelievably good statistics over the last two years and "he hasn't done it against australia". He does it against Australia and then suddenly people wriggle out by referring to irrelevant and highly misleading (considering how bad they were at one point) statistics from his whole career. (Oh and that Mcgrath wasn't playing - well lets just produce a list of all those World class cricketers that the Australians have had to score their runs against and take their wickets against)

 

[greg]

It is also true that Kallis has only become an all time great (going by the statistics) with the bat since he gave up front line bowling.

 

[greg]

Flintoff's stats would also be a hell of a lot better if he could field at second slip to himself. Most of the time he's had to make do with Mark Butcher

 

[twctopcat]

Flintoff's stats would also be a hell of a lot better if he could field at second slip to himself. Most of the time he's had to make do with Mark Butcher

Haha lol, ain't that the truth. South Africa '03 springs to mind, should have about 30 extra wickets.

 

[Natman20]

I have noticed that most people in this thread are English and that shows as youre all biased with Flintoff. I would rate Cairns higher I think.

 

[greg]

I have noticed that most people in this thread are English and that shows as youre all biased with Flintoff. I would rate Cairns higher I think.

Location: Auckland, NZ

 

[twctopcat]

Location: Auckland, NZ

Wipeout!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I have noticed that most people in this thread are English and that shows as youre all biased with Flintoff. I would rate Cairns higher I think.

Oh, on current form I TOTALLY agree.

I also agree that you're not biased.

Perhaps the fact that people are picking Flintoff is because even English cricket fans can recognize quality and Flintoff actually is the best.