Who is a better batsman Martyn or Chanderpaul?

[FaaipDeOiad]

Why not ?
That is bringing the game into disrepute.

Because he had every right to yell at them, because he got hit with the ball?

When Brett Lee hit Brendon McCullum with a beamer in New Zealand, McCullum yelled at him and was not disciplined for it.

 

[luckyeddie]

Why not ?
That is bringing the game into disrepute.

A slight over-reaction, perhaps?

What is bringing the game into disrepute are supporters who just will not let such a trivial matter rest. For goodness sake, it happened days ago, it was a 'spur of the moment' thing, a few players sported their best handbags and that was it. Done and dusted. It didn't even get as far as hair-pulling.

As far as you and Scally arguing about whether Ponting is being treated differently to Ganguly - well, The Exulted Left-Handed One has been a menace to official time-keepers for years, and (seems to) seldom give a toss. At least when the Aussies got behind their over rate recently (in the Twenty20 debacle, IIRC) Ponting visibly encouraged his bowlers to speed up, bowl off short run-ups etc. Possibly that's down to 'being visible', in which case perhaps Ganguly ought to take a leaf out of RP's book.

(Oh my God, I've just sided with Scally. Somebody take a picture of this moment).

Now as far as who is the better batsman, Martyn or Chande.... (voice fades into distance)

 

[marc71178]

Why not ?
That is bringing the game into disrepute.

Storm in a teacup.

 

[Pratters]

You said that Australia preferred Clarke to Lehmann and then you mentioned that Clarke scored faster than Chanderpaul and also that Chanderpaul couldn't break in when Steve Waugh was there./quote]

I was just analysing! Read the point again. I said Chanders>Clarke currently and not the other way around so I dont really find the reason you disputed it.

Yes but Chanderpaul has been more consistent for a longer period with some dry periods included but he's managed to keep a good average.

Martn has been as consistent for a significant period of time.

Yes it is an advantage that Martyn scores faster.If Australia's middle order is stronger than the West Indies' then that provides Martyn with support which Chanderpaul doesn't have. He doesn't have to worry about wickets falling at the other end and can just play free.

On the flip side it can be said that because the middle order is weak Chanders requires to score faster while batting with the tail. Martyn can play in and use a few deliveries as the batting line up is strong.

 

[aussie]

On the flip side it can be said that because the middle order is weak Chanders requires to score faster while batting with the tail. Martyn can play in and use a few deliveries as the batting line up is strong.

ahhhhhhhh, has Liam terms it, i could you this has my Bread/butter point with regards to Martyn.

 

[Jono]

After missing out on selection in the original squads of 30, West Indies captain Shivnarine Chanderpaul has been included in the ICC World XI Test squad after averaging more than 77 over his last 13 Tests.

Chanders

 

[Sanz]

Nobody... is... comparing... Martyn... to... Lara...

Then why Bring Lara/Dravid into the discussion ?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Then why Bring Lara/Dravid into the discussion ?

Because you said that Martyn had a down period, and TEC pointed out that Dravid and Lara have had down periods too, indicating that great batsmen too have periods where they don't make so many runs.

 

[roseboy64]

I was just analysing! Read the point again. I said Chanders>Clarke currently and not the other way around so I dont really find the reason you disputed it.

I noticed that you said Chanderpaul was better than Clarke. It's just how you arranged your words.

Martn has been as consistent for a significant period of time.

Yes true but not as significant a period as Chanderpaul. If he's still as consistent in a few years then I'll give him his due.

On the flip side it can be said that because the middle order is weak Chanders requires to score faster while batting with the tail. Martyn can play in and use a few deliveries as the batting line up is strong.

Yes but he can't score faster than the wickets keep falling.

 

[Pratters]

I noticed that you said Chanderpaul was better than Clarke. It's just how you arranged your words.

I dont know what you had a problem with in regards to the word arrangement. Lets not go into the irrelevent then.

Yes true but not as significant a period as Chanderpaul. If he's still as consistent in a few years then I'll give him his due.

Just because Chanderpaul has had a longer career doesnt make him better IMO

Yes but he can't score faster than the wickets keep falling.

I would say players usually play their natural game in most circumstances. Would Martyn score slower if he was in West Indies or Chanderpaul score faster if he was in Australia? Really dont think so.

Chanders is a slower batsman as is evident from the stats and thats just the way he plays.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I would say players usually play their natural game in most circumstances. Would Martyn score slower if he was in West Indies or Chanderpaul score faster if he was in Australia? Really dont think so.

Chanders is a slower batsman as is evident from the stats and thats just the way he plays.

Circumstance, man!

The stats are there because he played the innings. The innings were played under circumstance. What is there to suggest that Chanderpaul would be the same had he played in a stronger batting lineup? He's already shown that he can definitely score quickly.

I like Xavier's statement here:

"he can't score faster than the wickets keep falling"

 

[Pratters]

Circumstance, man!

The stats are there because he played the innings. The innings were played under circumstance. What is there to suggest that Chanderpaul would be the same had he played in a stronger batting lineup? He's already shown that he can definitely score quickly.

I like Xavier's statement here:

"he can't score faster than the wickets keep falling"

I will ask one simple thing. Adam Gilchrist bats so low and after the specialist batsman who bats above him gets out its he and the tail enders. So does that make Gilchrist score faster or slower?

Its how you approach a cirumstance which is also important. Attack is the best form of defense and I dont think Lara would have a poor strike rate despite batting in the Windies batting line up (though the comparison isnt perfect as Lara is a genius and Chanders a mere mortal like almost every one else).

Yes two quick wickets fall and Chanders is bound to bat slowly and take less risks and its a simple point you make and is understood but its not necessary that a pressure situation makes a batsman score defensively though it is indeed the norm.

I havent denied that Chanders can score quickly. He is a very good batsman just like Martyn and there is very little to chose between the too. Martyn though, even though he is in a stronger batting line up and has a cushion thus and Chanders has a negative factor of being in a weaker batting line up, I still dont see Chanders scoring as fast as Martyn over all in other scenarios as well.

Usually while dissecting players, it comes down to so many other stuff like some one not being able to play as well in a specific type of condition etc but both these players have shown they are apt and such is the comparison that it comes down to nitty gritties like strike rates, circumstantial strike rates for being in a specific teams.

Lets just say you would chose Chanders, I would Martyn if it comes down to chose one of the two. On a specific day or in a specific match though, any one can ofcourse outscore the other.

Well even B.K.V.Prasad has outscored Tendulkar on ocassions but that is another matter.

 

[Sanz]

Because you said that Martyn had a down period, and TEC pointed out that Dravid and Lara have had down periods too, indicating that great batsmen too have periods where they don't make so many runs.

First, his argument about Dravid was false and he continues to defend Dravid's poor form during 2000-2001 (such a Dravid Fan) when the fact is that 2000-2001 season is Dravid's best season so far.

As for Lara, He had proved his consistency by then and dven during the lean patch his avg. hardly went below 50 unlike Martyb whose avg. was down by almost 10.

 

[Linda]

Martyn.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I will ask one simple thing. Adam Gilchrist bats so low and after the specialist batsman who bats above him gets out its he and the tail enders. So does that make Gilchrist score faster or slower?

Adam Gilchrist bats in the Australian lineup. What's your point?

 

[Pratters]

Adam Gilchrist bats in the Australian lineup. What's your point?

He bats usually with not too many wickets in hand. So does Chanderpaul when wickets keep falling around him. Gilchrist goes for the attack. Chanders and most other batsmen go for lesser risks.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

He bats usually with not too many wickets in hand. So does Chanderpaul when wickets keep falling around him. Gilchrist goes for the attack. Chanders and most other batsmen go for lesser risks.

Chanderpaul bats in the West Indian lineup and Martyn and Gilchrist in the Australian lineup. BIG difference. Thus, using Gilchrist to justify that point is (dare I say) lame.

 

[Pratters]

Chanderpaul bats in the West Indian lineup and Martyn and Gilchrist in the Australian lineup. BIG difference. Thus, using Gilchrist to justify that point is (dare I say) lame.

I dont think its lame at all. Gilchrist faces pressure situations with little time in hand as very few wickets are left. Chanders faces the same. Gilly responds with agression. Chanders with safety and more importance to protection of wicket.

I havent justified the point with Gilly. Just shown that because you are in a weaker battign line up does not mean you necessarly should bat defensively as you face pressure of having little time in hand.

A better example maybe of Chris Cairns who was in a weak line up through his career but played pretty aggresively.

Most batsmen would play defensively though and it would reduce the strike rate a bit. So I am not justifying the point. I am showing how the phrase 'attack is the best form of defense' is true.

 

[luckyeddie]

Chanderpaul bats in the West Indian lineup and Martyn and Gilchrist in the Australian lineup. BIG difference. Thus, using Gilchrist to justify that point is (dare I say) lame.

Absolutely, Liam. There is a huge difference in that Gilchrist rarely comes in to bat when Australia are fighting to save a game - sometimes the scenario is that there's 250+ on the board, it's an hour or more before close on the first day and the opposition bowlers are looking forward to putting their feet up. More often it's an hour before lunch on day 2, 400-5 and the second ball's fast losing what shine it had.

Chanderpaul often faces a quite different set of circumstances. I shan't insult peoples intelligence by explaining further what those are and the reasons for them.

 

[Dasa]

Pratyush, why bring scoring rate into it? It isn't something that matters a great deal in Tests. Martyn scores quicker than Dravid, does that mean he is better?