Which would you pick for a Test bowling all-rounder spot on a team?

[The Sean]

Marshall is an ideal no.9 onwards, not in an allrounder spot. He is not an allrounder and frankly I suspect his batting is inflated by playing in an all-star team.

I'd have thought the opposite - that playing in such a dominant team meant he rarely needed to take his batting as seriously as he might have done otherwise.

 

[subshakerz]

I'd have thought the opposite - that playing in such a dominant team meant he rarely needed to take his batting as seriously as he might have done otherwise.

We can debate his batting skill but the fact he had it easier as a WI tail is not deniable. It goes back to the Gilly issue, he had a tremendous cushion playing down the order for a very strong lineup and making his runmaking easier most of the time. Same with Marshall.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Marshall is an ideal no.9 onwards, not in an allrounder spot. He is not an allrounder and frankly I suspect his batting is inflated by playing in an all-star team.

Marshall averaged 24.89 in 1st class cricket (which includes his supposedly "inflated" 18.85 test average for the all-star team). He scored 7 1st class 100s and is fine to bat 8.

Wasim's test batting average is greatly inflated by 1 innings. His 1st class batting numbers are worse than Marshall's.

Imo, Marshall is the best choice whilst Davidson is the 2nd best choice.

 

[Bolo.]

Marshall is obviously a better cricketer than Wasim.

The question is you have a bowling allrounder spot available. Likely this will be at no.7 or 8.

Who is the best candidate?

To me, I am much more comfortable with Wasim in that spot. Why? Because he is ATG level in his bowling role unlike Philander, Ashwin and Jadeja while more capable with the bat to hang around than Marshall, though admittedly he is a borderline allrounder.

Marshall is an ideal no.9 onwards, not in an allrounder spot. He is not an allrounder and frankly I suspect his batting is inflated by playing in an all-star team.

Both of them are a long way from being ARs IMO and would throw the balance off a fair bit. Very little difference in their batting. If you reckon Marshall was obviously better overall, either pick him or someone good enough with the bat to make a notable difference to the balance.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall averaged 24.89 in 1st class cricket (which includes his supposedly "inflated" 18.85 test average for the all-star team). He scored 7 1st class 100s and is fine to bat 8.

Wasim's test batting average is greatly inflated by 1 innings. His 1st class batting numbers are worse than Marshall's.

Imo, Marshall is the best choice whilst Davidson is the 2nd best choice.

Upon reflection, I agree Wasim himself wouldn't be an all-rounder in my view. Neither would Marshall.

To me, all-rounder means someone capable of batting in the top seven and being one of five main bowlers.

Only Kapil Dev, Jadeja and Botham qualify. Out of those, I choose Kapil since he was a slightly better bowler.

 

[shortpitched713]

How good the top order is might change things. Better than the below options just means better than a 24 average. If they all average 25, I'd pick Marshall. A bit of extra batting won't win you much. All ATGs, still Marshall. Top order is gonna fire often enough. All test standard bats, I'm torn between Marshall and jadeja. Jadeja better for balance, and Marshall simply better.

They're all better than the best bat in this group, i.e better than Botham as I stated none of them are taking a specialist batting spot. No standouts though.

 

[shortpitched713]

I don't know why people are picking Jadeja over Ashwin, when most are picking the best seam bowler instead of an allrounder like Botham. Unless they're memeing of course, or genuinely think that Jadeja is a better bowler than Ashwin?

I've got Jadeja squarely in the middle of this pack, with the more specialist bowlers bringing up the rear.

 

[trundler]

They're all better than the best bat in this group, i.e better than Botham as I stated none of them are taking a specialist batting spot. No standouts though.

This makes Marshall the obvious call. That's the current SL side. Or SA in the mid 90s.

 

[shortpitched713]

Also, get that no one rates his bowling one iota, but Philander is the best bat out of the 4 non all rounder seamers.

 

[trundler]

Also, get that no one rates his bowling one iota, but Philander is the best bat out of the 4 non all rounder seamers.

No.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't know why people are picking Jadeja over Ashwin, when most are picking the best seam bowler instead of an allrounder like Botham. Unless they're memeing of course, or genuinely think that Jadeja is a better bowler than Ashwin?

I've got Jadeja squarely in the middle of this pack, with the more specialist bowlers bringing up the rear.

Jadeja is a genuine allrounder while Ashwin is a borderline one, even though Ashwin is a better bowler. Ashwin's batting since 2017 has been more useful tailender than a regular bat. Jadeja has improved in the same time.

 

[shortpitched713]

No.

Who you rating higher?

 

[shortpitched713]

Jadeja is a genuine allrounder while Ashwin is a borderline one, even though Ashwin is a better bowler. Ashwin's batting since 2017 has been more useful tailender than a regular bat. Jadeja has improved in the same time.

That's not getting Botham or Kapil too many votes. Honestly just think people are memeing.

 

[subshakerz]

That's not getting Botham or Kapil too many votes. Honestly just think people are memeing.

No, people are confused because they don't have their own criteria for an allrounder and therefore are picking the better cricketer.

To me, quite simple. AR can bat in the top seven and is one of five regular bowlers.

Outside of that, we are talking about mostly useful tailenders and part-time bowlers who are not ARs.

 

[shortpitched713]

 

[shortpitched713]

No, people are confused because they don't have their own criteria for an allrounder and therefore are picking the better cricketer.

To me, quite simple. AR can bat in the top seven and is one of five regular bowlers.

Outside of that, we are talking about mostly useful tailenders and part-time bowlers who are not ARs.

Yeah, but people aren't picking the best all-rounder. They're generally picking Marshall, the best seam bowler. It's only if they want spin that suddenly the whole batting thing is mattering.

Jadeja vs Ashwin, as cricketers is a different story I guess, but you can't consider Jadeja as a clearly greater cricketer. Like their whole careers overlap, and it's just silly to me to take that position.

 

[trundler]

Lindwall > Davidson as a test AR. 0 tons should disqualify you from the discussion. If he was such a great FC batsman he should've done more in tests.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, but people aren't picking the best all-rounder. They're generally picking Marshall, the best seam bowler. It's only if they want spin that suddenly the whole batting thing is mattering.

Jadeja vs Ashwin, as cricketers is a different story I guess, but you can't consider Jadeja as a clearly greater cricketer. Like their whole careers overlap, and it's just silly to me to take that position.

No. To clarify, Jadeja is a true allrounder, while Ashwin is a better cricketer. In fact, I am finding it hard to call Ashwin an AR actually since his batting isn't good enough.

I am warming up to the idea to be strict about delineating who is an allrounder actually. I think Hadlee to me would be the absolute minimum of batting skill necessary for a bowler to claim to be an AR, since he was a no.8 who was good enough to bat in the top seven over the course of his career. Hadlee is a better bat than Ashwin to me.

 

[shortpitched713]

@trundler Vernon Philander has 3 FC tons. You don't rate him as a bat though?

How much hate can we generate within ourselves? And all because we jealous of another man's cake.

 

[trundler]

@trundler Vernon Philander has 3 FC tons. You don't rate him as a bat though?

How much hate can we generate within ourselves? And all because we jealous of another man's cake.

I said the opposite of what you think I said, my man.