Which teams would be adversely effected by Cond/Pitches in SA ?

[Gotchya]

Don't misrepresent what I said. I was talking about the situation mentioned (10 runs off the final over etc.). I would definately choose Jason consistency over Wasim's wicket-taking ability because there's always the possibility Wasim would get hit around searching for a wicket.

As far as the last overs go....well Wasim as i have seen isn't really searching for a wicket anyway, its just six yorkers out of six deliveries, with the control that he has its been easy ! Also, not to forget, Wasim has one of best economy rates in modern cricket, So its not a case of spraying the ball in vain to get wickets either.

I haven't seen him getting hit a lot, not for a long while anyway.....

 

[Anil]

Originally posted by Top_Cat

As far as the last 10 matches are concerned, Akram has slightly better figures in tests and Gillespie has slightly better figures in one dayers. Your "no-one in their right mind" theory doesn't seem to pan out when you look at the figures.

Oh come on, use your rational rather than emotional head, will ya? Gillespie is a bowler most definately on the way up whilst Akram's best days are behind him. Most people would probably pick Gillespie on that basis in itself.

Stats say little about how well Gillespie is bowling against top opposition right now. Stats don't really say anywhere near everything about a player anyway. It's pretty obvious who is bowling better right now. All you have to do is watch both of them bowl.

Also, you neglected to mention the opposition in Wasim's last 10 Tests:

WI, SL, England and Bangladesh.

Gillespie's last 10 Tests:

England, NZ, Pakistan and South Africa.

Kind of puts those stats in perspective, yes?

[Edited on 15/11/2002 by Top_Cat]

SA is the only lineup over here which makes a difference. The Pak lineup for the recent series was as bad as Bangladesh. In any case, in that series, Warne took 27 wickets and McGrath took 14. How many did Gillespie take? SL in SL(or in the subcontinent) is a formidable lineup and the NZ lineup can easily compare to the West Indians as far as batting goes.

Stats say very little about a player, you say. I don't agree. It shows how much impact he has had in matches and how much his bad performance will affect the entire team. In Gillespie's case, like it or not, he is a support bowler as long as McGrath and Warne play. He might be the best support bowler currently playing international cricket, but that's all he is. When McGrath retires and he becomes the country's best pace bowler, we will see. Wasim had either Imran or Waqar or both to compete with through out his career and he has acquitted himself extremely well. He is an all-time great whether you like it or not while Gillespie has a long way to go to be considered as one.

I agree that Gillespie is on his way up while Akram is on his way down, but Gillespie is not on a pedestal yet and Akram still is not so bad that he can be written off.

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by Top_Cat

Don't misrepresent what I said. I was talking about the situation mentioned (10 runs off the final over etc.). I would definately choose Jason consistency over Wasim's wicket-taking ability because there's always the possibility Wasim would get hit around searching for a wicket.

What are you talking about ?

In that exact scenario Wasim has excelled in countless matches throughout his career and in his prime no one even dreamed of tonking one of those yorkers that he bowled at the death.

10 runs in the last over with Wasim in his prime was next to impossible in nine out of ten cases.

 

[marc71178]

SA is the only lineup over here which makes a difference. The Pak lineup for the recent series was as bad as Bangladesh. In any case, in that series, Warne took 27 wickets and McGrath took 14. How many did Gillespie take?

3 in 1 and a bit matches then he got injured.

 

[Anil]

Originally posted by marc71178

SA is the only lineup over here which makes a difference. The Pak lineup for the recent series was as bad as Bangladesh. In any case, in that series, Warne took 27 wickets and McGrath took 14. How many did Gillespie take?

3 in 1 and a bit matches then he got injured.

Exactly!!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm confused. Are we comparing Wasim and Gillespie?? That's just ridiculous!! Wasim is a living legend and still a better cricketer than most out there!

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by anilramavarma

Originally posted by marc71178

SA is the only lineup over here which makes a difference. The Pak lineup for the recent series was as bad as Bangladesh. In any case, in that series, Warne took 27 wickets and McGrath took 14. How many did Gillespie take?

3 in 1 and a bit matches then he got injured.

Exactly!!

Sorry I meant in one and a bit innings - he was injured in the First Test - so we never know how many he'd have got in the series as a whole.

 

[Go_India]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
I'm confused. Are we comparing Wasim and Gillespie?? That's just ridiculous!! Wasim is a living legend and still a better cricketer than most out there!

well not any more!wasim doesn't even know how to control the bowl now, perhaps they should bring back mushtaq ahmad

 

[wasims_fan]

Originally posted by Go_India

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
I'm confused. Are we comparing Wasim and Gillespie?? That's just ridiculous!! Wasim is a living legend and still a better cricketer than most out there!

well not any more!wasim doesn't even know how to control the bowl now, perhaps they should bring back mushtaq ahmad

I think you should concentrate on the indian bowling department.your bowlers are really struggling against the west indies.Pakistan has the most variety of bowling and even your bowlers admit that.Even today,wasim can bowl much better than any of your fast bowlers.
Srinath 9-1-71-1
Nehra 5-0-53-0

 

[Neil Pickup]

And I think that we've discussed the Indian bowling department so many times that even Gandhi would be getting close to screaming with frustration.

Back on Topic or Closed.

 

[warrioryohannan]

Originally posted by Go_India

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
I'm confused. Are we comparing Wasim and Gillespie?? That's just ridiculous!! Wasim is a living legend and still a better cricketer than most out there!

well not any more!wasim doesn't even know how to control the bowl now, perhaps they should bring back mushtaq ahmad

Stop fooling around Go-India.Waseem Akram is still a very good bowler, and at a time when India's bowlers are going through a very bad patch, mocking great bowlers like Akram hardly make any sense.

 

[henochschon]

[/quote]

well not any more!wasim doesn't even know how to control the bowl now, perhaps they should bring back mushtaq ahmad [/quote]

I think what he was trying to say was that Akram cannot control the ball as well as the great Indian pacer "Ajit Agarkar"

 

[anzac]

can we get back on thread guys!!!!!

I think any team that goes into the competition in SA without a decent seam attack will have problems. Having said that I don't just mean so far as pace or bounce is concerned, rather than an ability to bowl the right line & length!!!! Any attck that has it's emphasis on spin without seamers that will bowl the right line & length will be at a disadvantage.

Similarly the batting line ups will have to adjust to the extra pace off the pitch, but more so the extra lift as this is what tends to catch out players when they play off the front foot with their hands too low!!!!

In this theory the teams that should have the least trouble with the conditions should be SA, Australia, Pakistan & WIndies; followed by the likes of NZ & England.

The top class players of any side should be able to make the adjustment quickly enough, but the real test will be for the batsmen of lesser ability.

I also think that we should see less team selections heavy with 'all rounders' of medium pace, as they will have less margin for error at medium pace on the faster & bouncier pitches - unlike in SL for the ICC Tourney.

8D

 

[V Reddy]

Indian is still pretty good . Nehra bowls well outside India. I think any bowler would go for runs on these tracks. Even against SAF , Ind scored consistently in the region of 280 in 1999 just after the AUS and they were in poor form . Does it mean that pollock and kallis are bad bowlers. Even against AUS they scored consistently in the region of 280 . In IND everytime we have high scoring games. Nehra bowled so well in the ondayers in ENG,WI,SRL,ZIM before that. He can't be a bad bowler in 3 games. Even Srinath is going for runs. Also Cuffy who had an econ. of 3.96 before this series. The real test for them is in NZ.