Which team has the worst bowling attack among the top8?

[sirdj]

Haha, I'll take a stab.

please do.

No logic there. Just because the rest of the team underperformed means his excellent performance with the ball means nothing? Why bother even keeping the records of players in matches/series they've lost then. You can't just disregard results you don't like....figures of 9 wickets at an average of less than 20 and an economy rate of 3.47 (!!) are remarkable.

is 9 wickets in a 5 match series something to write home about??? If it is then we just have different standards.

He certainly can be hittable, but recently Agarkar has been a much improved ODI bowler, and has rarely gone for many.

Recently?? How many matches has Agarkar played in the last season?

What does hitting 140 or not matter? If they're bowling accurately (which Agarkar and Munaf have done), extra pace will be of little use considering neither will ever be express 150+ pace.

This was in reply to someone claiming that they are clocking 140, I merely said that they are not.

Actually, it seems as if you're the one without the facts. Again, you've seen a result you don't like so the solution is to make up some sort of criteria so you can disregard it. Do you have any proof that it was a fact that the speed guns weren't calibrated properly? If not, you have no grounds to make that claim.

I did not state a fact, I posed a question. I hope you can understand the difference between the two.

Again, take a look back at the posts in this thread and see who is really avoiding the facts. I'm not quite sure what you hope to achieve by throwing accusations at other forummers.

What facts have I avoided, please list them. I don't accuse anyone of anything except a slight bias for their home country. Is that a wrong assumption. Besides its the people who have been arguing with me who dont think they need to use facts in their arguments.

Hahaha. I'm thinking you might just be here to stir people up because thus far it's hard to take your posts seriously.

I did not begin by stirring things up, please check my first post on the topic. Thereafter, everything I have said has been in response to post by other members. Is a man not allowed to defend what he is trying to say? Or is everyone just supposed to confirm with the majority view??

Irrelevant. Most of the Indian fans on this forum are pretty unbiased and can recognise negatives in their own team where they exist. Most also don't take kindly to being accused of bias.

Ha ha ha ha..........which country is it that writes the name of their cricketers on Donkeys, stones their houses and threatens their relatives when they lose series??? I seem to keep forgetting that. Do you seriously want me to believe that Indians here don't feel the same way?? Indians have a habit of hyping things up and then taking a loss in cricket as badly as if they had lost a war. Just have a look at the Times of India and Hindustan Times websites and see all the 'India Shining' hype that they have on it all the time. Wonder why Sonia Gandhi has to remind them about not believing the hype?

Many of the other teams in the World Cup won't be going in with five frontline bowlers.

Yes they have what you call genuine all-rounders, unlike a Pathan.

...and this is one of your facts? Where's the proof? All you've given are opinions, not facts.

Proof of Indian bowlers falling apart??
Videocon Triangular Series in Zimbabwe 2005
IndianOil Cup SriLanka 2005
World cup finals 2003
Coca Cola Champions Trophy 2000-01 against Sri Lanka - where Jayasurya tore them apart.
Coca-Cola Singapore Challenge, 1999, Final against West Indies - where Powell pummeled them
Champions Trophy finals against New Zealand

How many do you need? When was the last tournament that India Won against quality opposition? In fact when was the last time India won against quality opposition because of their bowlers??
why don't you look up the facts for a change.

Again all this talk of facts. If you're so concerned with facts, then show some!

That line about match fixing was when Turbinator said that he did not need fact to prove his points. So I was just reminding him about what he himself had said a few posts back

You are entitled to think that...however, having been on this forum for quite some time and knowing most of the members, I don't think our collective opinions count for jack-****. If you really think that, I don't see why you're bothering to discuss cricket with us.

I don't have to agree with collective opinion. I am not a sheep.
I am quite capable of forming my own. And who are you to say whether I stay or leave this forum.
I came to this forum out of my interest of the game. I posted a view which some Indian fans may find difficult to swallow. If that is the case then so be it.
I would like to remind you that the opinion of Indian fans is not = forum opinion.

 

[biased indian]

how is a word like sh1t worse than a word like idiot or moron used badly? It depends on the usage you know.

besides I could say something to you in hindi and no-one would be the wiser.

its not that only you two understand hindi here........(do you know abt Report post thing )

and i can call you some thing in malayaalam i am sure only anil will be knowing
wht i meant in this whole forum

but u r not allowd to us any other language than english in this forum ok

 

[biased indian]

Has Agarkar even played 20 ODI in the last season??

this is his last 20 matches starting from May 2006

20 164 777 27 3/45 2/22 28.77 4.73 36.4 0 0

its very decent if u compare it with his career stats

 

[biased indian]

Proof of Indian bowlers falling apart??
Videocon Triangular Series in Zimbabwe 2005
IndianOil Cup SriLanka 2005
World cup finals 2003
Coca Cola Champions Trophy 2000-01 against Sri Lanka - where Jayasurya tore them apart.
Coca-Cola Singapore Challenge, 1999, Final against West Indies - where Powell pummeled them
Champions Trophy finals against New Zealand

atleast they where good enough to take us to the final

 

[Dasa]

is 9 wickets in a 5 match series something to write home about??? If it is then we just have different standards.

9 wickets in 5 matches = 1.8 wickets per match. Not many bowlers do that, let alone better than that. Anyway, his performance in that series was not the number of wickets he took, but the runs conceded while taking those wickets. Giving away 3.47 runs per over over the course of a 5 match series is a brilliant performance.

Recently?? How many matches has Agarkar played in the last season?

15 in the 2006/2007 season. He hasn't done brilliantly, nor has he been especially poor.

I did not state a fact, I posed a question. I hope you can understand the difference between the two.

I don't appreciate the condescension. Anyway, after making such a big show about facts, I found it a bit odd that you would ask such a question given it was based on speculation at best.

What facts have I avoided, please list them. I don't accuse anyone of anything except a slight bias for their home country. Is that a wrong assumption. Besides its the people who have been arguing with me who dont think they need to use facts in their arguments.

You've avoided giving any of these precious facts while asking them of the people you're arguing with. If you're so concerned with facts, provide them yourself.

I did not begin by stirring things up, please check my first post on the topic. Thereafter, everything I have said has been in response to post by other members. Is a man not allowed to defend what he is trying to say? Or is everyone just supposed to confirm with the majority view??

No need to put words in my mouth. I was just commenting on the sheer absurdity of some of your comments.

Ha ha ha ha..........which country is it that writes the name of their cricketers on Donkeys, stones their houses and threatens their relatives when they lose series??? I seem to keep forgetting that. Do you seriously want me to believe that Indians here don't feel the same way?? Indians have a habit of hyping things up and then taking a loss in cricket as badly as if they had lost a war. Just have a look at the Times of India and Hindustan Times websites and see all the 'India Shining' hype that they have on it all the time. Wonder why Sonia Gandhi has to remind them about not believing the hype?

Eh? What you've listed there has virtually nothing to do with the discussions on this forum. You want to single out some idiotic fans, then do it for every country - India is far from alone here. Anyway, I don't think any of the Indian fans on this forum are anything like what you seem to think they are like. Seriously, where do you get off making accusations about the forummers here? You've only just joined, and you already think you know everyone well enough to insult them?

Yes they have what you call genuine all-rounders, unlike a Pathan.

Which teams have genuine all-rounders in the traditional sense? If Pathan is bowling well, he is a genuine all-rounder in ODIs...if he's not, he most likely won't play.

Proof of Zaheer falling apart??
World cup finals 2003
Asia cup in Dubai(not sure of year) against Sri Lanka - where Jayasurya tore him apart.
Champions Trophy finals against New Zealand.
how many do you need?

Ahh, a few isolated examples among the numerous matches where he hasn't crumbled under the pressure.

That line about match fixing was when Turbinator said that he did not need fact to prove his points. So I was just reminding him about what he himself had said a few posts back

Erm...I think it was quite obvious that Turb was saying he didn't necessarily need to provide the figures because his point was just based on common sense.

I don't have to agree with collective opinion. I am not a sheep.

Again, putting words in my mouth. I never said you have to agree with the collective opinion. My point is that maybe you should show a bit more respect to the opinions of those on this forum. We have several highly knowledgeable people here and I don't think you're in a position to reduce everyone to "jack-****".

I am quite capable of forming my own. And who are you to say whether I stay or leave this forum.
I came to this forum out of my interest of the game. I posted a view which some Indian fans may find difficult to swallow. If that is the case then so be it.
I would like to remind you that the opinion of Indian fans is not = forum opinion.

Geez. I didn't say you should leave. I questioned why you bothered posting because you seem to think our opinions are worthless. We have a lot of people who disagree on various issues around here...but by and large we still show respect to those with whom we disagree.


Anyway, I'm out. I really couldn't be bothered discussing cricket with someone when they see fit to brand the opinions of many on the forum as "jack-****".

 

[i_cricket]

How come 7 out of 42 people have voted for India as the worst bowling attack. Since the South Africa tour with the re-emergence of Zaheer Khan, India seems to have a much better attack. In the whole SA tour with the exception of 2-3 innings, the Indian bowlers always took early wickets and SA used to start off with scores like 10/2. This trend continued in the future matches as well. With India having 2 of the worlds top 4 spinners in their team and Zaheer Khan who has totally rediscovered himself alongwith 2 young fast bowlers - Munaf and Sreesanth, Indian bowling can be considered as one of the best, if not the best. Indian bowling is very underrated though.

 

[sirdj]

this is his last 20 matches starting from May 2006

20 164 777 27 3/45 2/22 28.77 4.73 36.4 0 0

its very decent if u compare it with his career stats

We are not talking about his stats as compared to his past career.............we know that over the years Agarkar has been nothing but mediocre. We are talking about his performance as compared to world standards. Is 27 wickets in 20 matches good enough??? If it is then the Indian are in serious trouble.

 

[Jono]

Are you for real sirdj?

India and Sri Lanka's attacks are hardly the best in the world, but they are also not even close to being the worst in limited overs cricket. Firstly, SL having Vaas and Murali, two of the best ODI bowlers of the last decade immediately puts them out of contention. Add an experienced Jayasuriya who is outstanding bowling in ODIs, and Malinga who can go for 60 runs, yet still win a match with one lethal yorker, and I reckon there are 3-4 teams with worst attacks, if not more.

And regarding India, they're not close to having the best, but I think you'd see recent stats and results show that Munaf is one of the form ODI bowlers of the last 12-18 months, and Zaheer has been outstanding since his return.

And signing up to this forum and immediately laying into AA can't be a wise decision. I'd watch your back, the AAAS could strike at any minute.

 

[biased indian]

We are not talking about his stats as compared to his past career.............we know that over the years Agarkar has been nothing but mediocre. We are talking about his performance as compared to world standards. Is 27 wickets in 20 matches good enough??? If it is then the Indian are in serious trouble.

if you consider this as horrible

i think pakistan will even struggle to get past the group stages..i think all their bolwers who are now in team have either not played in the last season or have performed even worse than Agarkar in recent times

 

[sirdj]

9 wickets in 5 matches = 1.8 wickets per match. Not many bowlers do that, let alone better than that. Anyway, his performance in that series was not the number of wickets he took, but the runs conceded while taking those wickets. Giving away 3.47 runs per over over the course of a 5 match series is a brilliant performance.

I dont know, you may look at conceeding only 3.47 runs per over but in that particular series what was required was to take wickets, and Agarkar took only 9. None of the bowlers bowled well, and your point is that Agarkar at best was just economical.

15 in the 2006/2007 season. He hasn't done brilliantly, nor has he been especially poor.

And this performance is good enough for him to make the playing 11???

You've avoided giving any of these precious facts while asking them of the people you're arguing with. If you're so concerned with facts, provide them yourself.

I have mentioned facts, if I don't happen to trust the speed gun at Vizag its because of the big difference in figures during the warm up matches. So that suspicion is based on facts as well.

No need to put words in my mouth. I was just commenting on the sheer absurdity of some of your comments.

its not my comments that are absurd, its the lengths that you are willing to go to believe the hype about the team that you support

Eh? What you've listed there has virtually nothing to do with the discussions on this forum. You want to single out some idiotic fans, then do it for every country - India is far from alone here. Anyway, I don't think any of the Indian fans on this forum are anything like what you seem to think they are like. Seriously, where do you get off making accusations about the forummers here? You've only just joined, and you already think you know everyone well enough to insult them?

I never knew that calling someone biased is an insult?? I think I will have to look at the Oxford Dictionary of Insults to see if it has been updated lately.

In fact one of the members is honest enough to call himself biasedindian. And I applaud him.

Which teams have genuine all-rounders in the traditional sense?

Australia, New Zealand, England, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Africa

Ahh, a few isolated examples among the numerous matches where he hasn't crumbled under the pressure.

Hey how come when I mention facts you say isolated cases...........sounds like a bias if there ever was one.

Erm...I think it was quite obvious that Turb was saying he didn't necessarily need to provide the figures because his point was just based on common sense.

Oh yes, Indian fans say things based on common sense....everyone else are just idiots.

Again, putting words in my mouth. I never said you have to agree with the collective opinion. My point is that maybe you should show a bit more respect to the opinions of those on this forum. We have several highly knowledgeable people here and I don't think you're in a position to reduce everyone to "jack-****".

I said collective opinion does not make a truth. I did not say everyone's opinion is jack ****, you have either misquoted or misunderstood what I have said.

Anyway, I'm out. I really couldn't be bothered discussing cricket with someone when they see fit to brand the opinions of many on the forum as "jack-****".

You are free to do what you want. If you dont wish to reply then dont. I dont sit here waiting for your replies.

 

[sirdj]

Are you for real sirdj?

Yes I am real, make a trip to sydney and check me out.

India and Sri Lanka's attacks are hardly the best in the world, but they are also not even close to being the worst in limited overs cricket. Firstly, SL having Vaas and Murali, two of the best ODI bowlers of the last decade immediately puts them out of contention. Add an experienced Jayasuriya who is outstanding bowling in ODIs, and Malinga who can go for 60 runs, yet still win a match with one lethal yorker, and I reckon there are 3-4 teams with worst attacks, if not more.

Firstly Vaas does not appear in any top ten list of bowlers, and Murali needs turning pitches which I don't think the West Indians will give as they dont have a good spin attack either. An attack that did not feature the two were decimated in India recently. So pardon me If I don't hold a high opinion of them.

And regarding India, they're not close to having the best, but I think you'd see recent stats and results show that Munaf is one of the form ODI bowlers of the last 12-18 months, and Zaheer has been outstanding since his return.

Munaf seemed off colour in his last outing and Zaheer is prone to injuries and cracking under pressure. Lets see how they fare against Australia, New Zealand or South Africa.

 

[RolledOver]

Hope you're not basing that comment on the back of warm-up games.

Better than rubbishing it off, only to be found dead wrong

 

[RolledOver]

Munaf seemed off colour in his last outing and Zaheer is prone to injuries and cracking under pressure. Lets see how they fare against Australia, New Zealand or South Africa.

Munaf has been on awesome form lately, and i can safely say that he's going to decimate most of the batting lineup of the world, Aus,Nz and SA better watch ou this guy.

ZK use to be injury prone but is now super fit, as for cracking under pressure, well he's not the only one who has choked previously infact he is still way better than entire SA team. ZK is going to get great support from Munaf Patel, Sreesanth and Ajit, and his morale will be sky high.The only Indian bowler who is probably going to struggle is irafan khan

 

[Richard]

Dasa and sirj attempting out-Rich\tec myself and tec, here... never would've guessed it...

 

[pup11]

Though Pakistan did manage to beat the Proteas yesterday(pretty convincingly), i would still say their attack is easily the weakest among the top 8 sides atm, but you also got to realize that if you take out the best 2 bowlers from any bowling attack then they are bound to struggle, but still Pakistan showed tremendous spirit yesterday by managing to beat the #1 side in the world with ease, even with their depleted bowling attack.

 

[RolledOver]

I would say,

SA > AUS (depleted attack) > NZ/India> England/ SL> WI > *the not worth mentioning ones*

SA has a great attack, but when we take into consideration the nature of pitches in WI, their attack all of a sudden looks not all that good.

Aus attack is weakened by absence of Lee, still they have a beter attack.

NZ attack is very heavily dependent on Bond.

India has the most variety in their attack, a nice blend of classy swing and spin.

England is dependent on Flintoff & Anderson.

Taking into consideration the nature of pitches in wi i would say

India/McGrath led Aus> SL/NZ> SA/Eng> WI> *not worth mentioning ones*

 

[pasag]

Lol @ saying SL have the worst bowling attack in the world.

.

 

[Turbinator]

Lol, man I can't believe how SirDJ is still at it.

First he said SL had the worst bowling attack followed by India which was a joke. Then he said Agarkar won't be used much in the WC games which was a joke. Then he said Agarkar doesn't have speed, while he is easily the fastest Indian bowler in recent times, which was a joke. Then he said the speed guns in Vizag were broken and on top of that said I was the one who was basing my posts on opinion, which was a joke. And I could go on for hours tbh, which isn't a joke ... .

 

[pakster]

The nature of ODI cricket is such, that you dont really need high-class wicket taking bowlers. Containers (non-plastic ) to the job more often than not - with 3 decent ODI spinners in malik, afridi and hafeez...backed up by Gul (pretty good) and Rana (not the worst in the world) - I dont think our bowling is quite as bas as everyone is making out.

 

[Evermind]

Firstly Vaas does not appear in any top ten list of bowlers, and Murali needs turning pitches which I don't think the West Indians will give as they dont have a good spin attack either.

It's quite sad to see a man dig a hole and throw himself in and then continue to dig some more.

Murali is only the best spinner playing cricket in the world right now. If he "needs turning pitches", Hogg is going to need to bowl on this to have any hope of taking a wicket:

All the countries might as well send all their spinners home.