Which cricket team has the best "Spin Department"

[luckyeddie]

If we've learned one thing from Udal it's surely "never say never" when it comes to a selector's call!

I'm convinced that the selectors got Anthony McGrath mixed up with somebody else, and that his selection had more to do with post-Pimm's stupor than any insight.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm convinced that the selectors got Anthony McGrath mixed up with somebody else, and that his selection had more to do with post-Pimm's stupor than any insight.

I'll be honest, I thought we'd slipped into a time-warp & somehow "Mad" Raymond was still chairman of selectors when I saw him in the squad! Replacing Fred with him was roughly like replacing Michelangelo with Damien Hurst!

 

[steds]

Replacing Fred with him was roughly like replacing Michelangelo with Damien Hurst!

Or Morrissey with Britney Spears?

 

[marc71178]

I'll be honest, I thought we'd slipped into a time-warp & somehow "Mad" Raymond was still chairman of selectors when I saw him in the squad! Replacing Fred with him was roughly like replacing Michelangelo with Damien Hurst!

I think it was because Collingwood got injured at the same time that Fred was.

 

[open365]

I wouldn't put Chawla up there with them. He hasn't done anything yet, not even in FC cricket. They have Kumble, and Singh.

Chawla is not even in the Panesar category yet. Panesar has more FC experience and more Test experience.

Chawla is a fantastic prospect, i know you can't rate a player on what he might do in the future but he is 17 and has already played for India. He looks like a player that will do well in the game.

Name me a better young spinner than Chawla.

 

[silentstriker]

Chawla is a fantastic prospect, i know you can't rate a player on what he might do in the future but he is 17 and has already played for India. He looks like a player that will do well in the game.

Name me a better young spinner than Chawla.

Its irrelevent who is the best prospect. You cant group him with Kumble and Harbhajan yet (and probably never). Indian cricket history is full of kids brought in too soon and then fizzled out, and there are very few exceptions (SRT).

THats why I think there ought to be a minimum age of 22 and a minimum of two full domestic seasons for national selection eligibility.

Picking people like Parthiv Patel, Chawla, etc when they haven't played much (or any) domestic cricket is absolutely foolhardy. Why even have a domestic structure if you aren't going to use it to groom your future test players?

Sorry, Chawla will most likely end up in the large heap of Indian wasted talents who had too much expectation put upon them. How do you tell a 17 year old who has yet to play a single Test that he is the heir to Kumble? It is mind boggling, and anyone who pushes for his selection at this age, with such a lack of experience, is not fit to pick cricket players. Players have to be handled properly or all you will have are burnouts and failures. You need more than sheer talent to succeed at this level, and they have to be taught this.

In fact, I would venture to say that talent is important but the other things (patience, experience, level-headedness, response to pressure, grit, etc) are more important overall to a player's success than just pure talent.

India has plenty of talent; its the other things we lack..and thats why we have never been world beaters.

 

[adharcric]

Chill out dude, they played him in one test to give him a taste of top-class cricket, it's not like they told him to go replace Kumble. As for one-day cricket, I think he's ready for that at the international level. He will get domestic experience because Kumble and Harbhajan and then Powar are ahead of him at the moment. He shouldn't be rushed and he isn't being rushed.

 

[Matt79]

nobody's mentioning andrew symonds offies!

 

[silentstriker]

Chill out dude, they played him in one test to give him a taste of top-class cricket, it's not like they told him to go replace Kumble. As for one-day cricket, I think he's ready for that at the international level. He will get domestic experience because Kumble and Harbhajan and then Powar are ahead of him at the moment. He shouldn't be rushed and he isn't being rushed.

The worst thing you can do to a spinner is to bring him out early before he is mature or confident enough. The second worst thing you can do is to make him bowl in ODI's, where he will likely be blown around to smithereens. The third worst thing you can do is to force him to bowl defensively (which he will have to do in ODIs).

We are about to hit the trifecta there.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The worst thing you can do to a spinner is to bring him out early before he is mature or confident enough. The second worst thing you can do is to make him bowl in ODI's, where he will likely be blown around to smithereens. The third worst thing you can do is to force him to bowl defensively (which he will have to do in ODIs).

We are about to hit the trifecta there.

Well said.

Play a spinner too early and you could destroy them.

 

[open365]

Its irrelevent who is the best prospect. You cant group him with Kumble and Harbhajan yet (and probably never). Indian cricket history is full of kids brought in too soon and then fizzled out, and there are very few exceptions (SRT).

THats why I think there ought to be a minimum age of 22 and a minimum of two full domestic seasons for national selection eligibility.

Picking people like Parthiv Patel, Chawla, etc when they haven't played much (or any) domestic cricket is absolutely foolhardy. Why even have a domestic structure if you aren't going to use it to groom your future test players?

Sorry, Chawla will most likely end up in the large heap of Indian wasted talents who had too much expectation put upon them. How do you tell a 17 year old who has yet to play a single Test that he is the heir to Kumble? It is mind boggling, and anyone who pushes for his selection at this age, with such a lack of experience, is not fit to pick cricket players. Players have to be handled properly or all you will have are burnouts and failures. You need more than sheer talent to succeed at this level, and they have to be taught this.

In fact, I would venture to say that talent is important but the other things (patience, experience, level-headedness, response to pressure, grit, etc) are more important overall to a player's success than just pure talent.

India has plenty of talent; its the other things we lack..and thats why we have never been world beaters.

Ok, as sides don't really field more than 2 spinners, i decided to look outside the first team and see who has the best all round pool of spinners.

Apart from Warne and MacGill, i don't know of any good Aussie spinners(ok,Mcnamara looks nifty)

Sri-Lanka have Murali and Bandara

England have a load of useless off-spinners

Pakistan has Kaneria

South Africa have Boje and Botha(if you can call him a bowler)

New Zealand have Vettori

India are the only ones i know that have 3 spinners that have played in a test together, Chawla is a quality spinner anyway.

 

[silentstriker]

India are the only ones i know that have 3 spinners that have played in a test together, Chawla is a quality spinner anyway.

No, five years from now he might be a quality spinner. Right now he is a prospect who is probably on his way to a short career because our selectors know jack **** about grooming players.

 

[steds]

Apart from Warne and MacGill, i don't know of any good Aussie spinners(ok,Mcnamara looks nifty)

I've heard that Casson, Cullen and Xavier Doherty (?) are good, but I can't confirm it. I can't even confirm that Xavier Doherty is the bloke that I'm thinking of's name.

 

[luckyeddie]

Chawla is a fantastic prospect, i know you can't rate a player on what he might do in the future but he is 17 and has already played for India. He looks like a player that will do well in the game.

Name me a better young spinner than Chawla.

Alastair Campbell - he's still the master.

 

[open365]

I've heard that Casson, Cullen and Xavier Doherty (?) are good, but I can't confirm it. I can't even confirm that Xavier Doherty is the bloke that I'm thinking of's name.

Wasn't there a guy called hauritz or soemthing?

 

[steds]

Wasn't there a guy called hauritz or soemthing?

Yeah. An offie. Played in that Mumbai test that Clarke took 6/9 in. From what I can gather, he's fallen down the pecking order.

 

[adharcric]

The worst thing you can do to a spinner is to bring him out early before he is mature or confident enough. The second worst thing you can do is to make him bowl in ODI's, where he will likely be blown around to smithereens. The third worst thing you can do is to force him to bowl defensively (which he will have to do in ODIs).

We are about to hit the trifecta there.

Bowling 10 overs in the "real" atmosphere is not going to shatter his confidence, even if KP slog-sweeps him, which we all witnessed. No one is telling him to carry the team's spin responsibility.

You can say this for just about any spinner, that he might get blown to smithereens in modern one-day cricket. This is true at just about every competitive level of cricket and I've already seen Chawla being slogged heavily in the death overs in that warmup match and it didn't look like his confidence was shattered. If he's ready, he should be tried, at least so he can get a taste of the real stuff.

Everyone has a different level of maturity, age doesn't indicate everything. Tendulkar was ready at 16, so Chawla might or might not be ready at 17, we don't know for sure. That said, he has had some domestic experience but he should get more. Don't shut out the prospect of playing a young player just because he's not 20 yet. Raina, RP Singh, Pathan, Yuvraj among others all started before 20. How would you know if he is or isn't mature and confident enough at this stage?

Now, I understand what you're saying and I don't want another prodigy to go to waste in Indian cricket. The good thing is that we have 2 capable spinners ahead of him and 2 others in Powar and Kartik who are in the scheme of things, so we're not exactly desperate for Chawla as we were for Parthiv earlier.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Chawla is a quality spinner anyway.

No he's not.

He's quality by U-19 standards, and, from what I can tell, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Nowhere near Test-class yet.

 

[silentstriker]

No he's not.

He's quality by U-19 standards, and, from what I can tell, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Nowhere near Test-class yet.

Agreed. He needs to get a full couple seasons of domestic cricket under his belt, and then go on overseas tours with India 'A' for another year or two. Then, if he consistantly performs there, you can think about giving him a test cap. India are just way too stupid when dealing with young kids. Too many burnouts, and too little learned from them. He is 17 years old, don't even think about picking him until he is about 21-22 (around 2009-2010).

 

[Matt79]

Wasn't there a guy called hauritz or soemthing?

Hauritz, from what I can gather, had a rather spectacular collapse of form, to the point where he was struggling to get picked for the Queensland 2nd XI, and was seriously looking gone for good. I think, however, he's started to turn that around and is again in contention for a regular FC slot.

He's seemingly been overtaken by Cullen in the national pecking order for offies. Cullen looks to be a good long term prospect, although he'll need a few more years seasoning before he's asked to replace Warne as the first spinner at international level.