Which cricket player performs/performed best under pressure?

[Waughney]

Steve Waugh, he did so in both forms of the game, whereas Bevan did it in just the OD arena.

 

[Mr Casson]

Steve Waugh, he did so in both forms of the game, whereas Bevan did it in just the OD arena.

Steve Waugh has a reputation for being a fighter, but I can't remember too many times when he stole a game for Australia (I mean really ripping it out of the opposition's hands).

Bevan would win that contest hands down.

 

[SJS]

Which batsmen performs/performed well under pressure situation?

Ashish Nehra !
He never allows the pressure of the situation to affect his batting

 

[vic_orthdox]

Steve Waugh has a reputation for being a fighter, but I can't remember too many times when he stole a game for Australia (I mean really ripping it out of the opposition's hands).

Bevan would win that contest hands down.

but ripping the game out of a teams hands, and playing well under pressure are two entirely different things. steve waugh made runs against the most firey attacks of the time (a donald and pollock led south africa and the west indies with ambrose and walsh) when australia was in dire straits.

and if you want a precise example of waugh ripping the game out of a teams hands, i reckon he did a pretty good job of that in the 99 WC

 

[Langeveldt]

As to the "falling to pieces" line, it wasn't intended with as much malice as it might have seemed - it's a throwaway line, and yes, we've all done it at some stage or another, and often about far better people than Cronje. It was only intended to be sharp and flippant, and I wouldn't have brought it up in a serious discussion about his death. But Langeveldt, if it offended you, I apologize.

No worries, apology accepted..

 

[C_C]

Heh, thanks for trying to bail me out on that one mate, but I'll willingly plead guilty to disrespect when it comes to Cronje.

To be honest, it kinda appalls me the things that can be said about Murali, a player that only ever inadvertently brought himself into question, and yet, Cronje, who deliberately, willingly, corrupted the game and worse still, corrupted others less experienced is still "loved by many". Not by me, and I call into question how much pressure that guy was ever under on the international stage, outside of whether he was going to please his bookies. I think, to be honest, I was riled at his inclusion with decent players in the poll who didn't sell out the game.

As to the "falling to pieces" line, it wasn't intended with as much malice as it might have seemed - it's a throwaway line, and yes, we've all done it at some stage or another, and often about far better people than Cronje. It was only intended to be sharp and flippant, and I wouldn't have brought it up in a serious discussion about his death. But Langeveldt, if it offended you, I apologize.

i dont see anything respectable about Cronje......he brought the game into disrepute to a level others can only dream of- the kingpin of matchfixing.

 

[Anil]

Non-South Africans do rather tend to give Cronje less of the human respect he deserves.

no jokes about his tragic accident...and no dissrespect to his cricketing abilities......exactly what is this "human respect" that he "deserves"?

 

[neutralguy]

i dont see anything respectable about Cronje......he brought the game into disrepute to a level others can only dream of- the kingpin of matchfixing.

dude,
Cronje and azhar may be match fixers, but these guys took their team to next level with their superior game under pressure. See even mark waugh and shane warne are match fixers only thing is that cricket australia saved their butts, so that things didnot go out of hand for them.
Now also cricket south africa is saving gibbs and boje's butt, so they should also be a disgrace to game, but the indian police did not enough chance to screw them. its as simple as that.
So i wouldnot consider cronje to be bad. he was one of the good things to have happened to south african cricket which later turned bad later, but neverthless you cannot take credit from that guy for his achievements.

 

[Langeveldt]

no jokes about his tragic accident...and no dissrespect to his cricketing abilities......exactly what is this "human respect" that he "deserves"?

You said it yourself.. Not making jokes about dying in a plane crash is a bit of human respect

 

[tooextracool]

Go and look up "integrity" in the dictionary (it's between "imbecile" and "intolerable"; familiar words for you?)

Some people still have it. The best players don't get into match fixing because there is no need. They know they are among the best and want to finish their careers knowing that they gave everything they had to the game.

err yes i know what integrity means,and ive never said that he was amongst the 'best players'. but if you can just get around to looking beyond one series, you;d know that cronje did a lot for SA cricket too. as far as that series is concerned, just like many many other people he was greedy, and his actions were wrong, have i ever denied that? the fact is that to put him down as an international shame, make jokes about his death etc is plain ridiculous, especially when there have been 100s of other match fixers who have been fortunate enough to get away with it, some of whom are still respected.

 

[Anil]

You said it yourself.. Not making jokes about dying in a plane crash is a bit of human respect

not for me....human respect for me means respect for him as a human being....and i don't have any(or i did have a lot till he was shown up for what he was and then i totally lost it...)....sorry if that bothers you....i was responding to richard's post saying that non-south africans don't give him the "human" respect he deserves....there are some valid reasons why no one should......just because he is dead doesn't change that.....

 

[Anil]

especially when there have been 100s of other match fixers who have been fortunate enough to get away with it, some of whom are still respected.

can you name a few...? easy to make vague, unsubstantiated claims like that....do you have the evidence to back it up?

 

[tooextracool]

can you name a few...? easy to make vague, unsubstantiated claims like that....do you have the evidence to back it up?

no but its fairly obvious that there have been several. if of course there was enough evidence, they wouldnt get another game.

 

[Slow Love™]

the fact is that to put him down as an international shame, make jokes about his death etc is plain ridiculous, especially when there have been 100s of other match fixers who have been fortunate enough to get away with it, some of whom are still respected.

Granted, making a joke about his death was tasteless (not that it'll be the last tasteless remark I ever make), but Cronje IS an international shame, and to call him so is FAR from ridiculous.

By all means, perform whatever rationalisations you need to make to maintain your respect for Cronje (such as the absurd idea that 9 out of 10 people would accept money to fix a match, or even worse, that half the players from that era were fixing matches), but don't "expect" that people will respect the man. If you do, it's your perogative. But as far as I'm (and I suspect, many others are) concerned, he threw away his entitlement to respect as a cricket player when he fixed matches and when he exploited younger players for his own greedy objectives.

 

[Anil]

no but its fairly obvious that there have been several. if of course there was enough evidence, they wouldnt get another game.

from your assertions of "100s of cricketers" and that some of them "are still respected", i got the impression that you had some inside info that the icc and the general public didn't have......but your reply was even more vague, "fairly obvious" & "several".....

 

[tooextracool]

By all means, perform whatever rationalisations you need to make to maintain your respect for Cronje (such as the absurd idea that 9 out of 10 people would accept money to fix a match, or even worse, that half the players from that era were fixing matches), but don't "expect" that people will respect the man. If you do, it's your perogative. But as far as I'm (and I suspect, many others are) concerned, he threw away his entitlement to respect as a cricket player when he fixed matches and when he exploited younger players for his own greedy objectives.

so you actually believe that most people in the world arent greedy? that if they were offered a **** load of money that would help them live their life in luxury and even if caught wouldnt go to jail, they wouldnt take it?
everybody makes mistakes, we seem to so easily forgive warne for all his ridiculous acts havent we? cronje has done a lot for south african cricket in his career, yet all of that goes completely down the drain because he committed one mistake, for which he can never be forgiven even though he actually served his penalty.

 

[tooextracool]

from your assertions of "100s of cricketers" and that some of them "are still respected", i got the impression that you had some inside info that the icc and the general public didn't have......but your reply was even more vague, "fairly obvious" & "several".....

whatever you want to believe. no one here has inside info that the icc dont have so its kinda pointless to even think about it, but im fairly sure that most people including the icc suspect that several players were involved and yet cant come up with sufficient evidence to nail them.

 

[neutralguy]

A classic examples of people who cant be nailed for match fixing includes:
Mark waugh, shane warne, herschelle gibbs, nicky boje.....

 

[Mr Casson]

But as far as I'm (and I suspect, many others are) concerned, he threw away his entitlement to respect as a cricket player when he fixed matches and when he exploited younger players for his own greedy objectives.

Exactly 100% spot on the mark.

 

[Slow Love™]

so you actually believe that most people in the world arent greedy? that if they were offered a **** load of money that would help them live their life in luxury and even if caught wouldnt go to jail, they wouldnt take it?
everybody makes mistakes, we seem to so easily forgive warne for all his ridiculous acts havent we? cronje has done a lot for south african cricket in his career, yet all of that goes completely down the drain because he committed one mistake, for which he can never be forgiven even though he actually served his penalty.

Just for a second, think through the ramifications of some of the things you're saying. The fact is that the majority of international cricketers WEREN'T involved in fixing matches or deliberately underperforming, and if you believe otherwise, we might as well not follow the sport. We might as well stop arguing over who's better than who, and who's average is better than this player or that player, because none of it would friggin' matter.

Also, you present Cronje as willingly "paying the price" for his "mistake" (the reality is that there wasn't one singular mistake or moment of weakness - there were a litany of systematic abuses of power). Let's be honest about this guy - after resisting Ali Bacher's attempts to include more black players in the side, he picked the two non-white players in his team at the time, Gibbs and Williams, to recruit to underperform for money. He threatened to sue journalists who alleged he was taking money from Indian bookies. When confronted by irrefutable evidence of his crimes, he told half the truth. He sought immunity from prosecution in exchange for testimony. After being next to useless in this regard (and having the immunity deal withdrawn), he then sought to sell his tell-all story, all juicy details included, to the highest-bidding publisher. As for doing his time, after 18 months out of the game he had the gall to request his life ban be overturned. This isn't a guy saying "I've done wrong, let me serve my penance." If anything, he appeared to see himself as a tragic victim of circumstance, and he presented as if his penalty was far too severe.

I don't have any love for Salim Malik either - but at least that man isn't worshipped in the absurd manner in which Cronje is. Interestingly, in the context of this thread, the president of the Free State board had warned the UCB before he was made captain of the South African team that Cronje was "susceptible under pressure to a degree of irrational behaviour that would not be compatible with the profile required of our national captain". Maybe he was right.