Where will Kohli end up among Asian batsmen?

[Kirkut]

Kohli is not your typical old school batsman, he's scored all his runs through fierce competitive spirit.

Unfortunately this could also be the reason of his decline, Tendulkar and Dravid compensated their slowed reflexes with sound technique that they honed during their formative years, cannot say the same for Kohli who is a quintessential modern batsman.

 

[Kirkut]

Smith is so similar to Kohli in this aspect as well - unorthodox approach and strong competitive spirit.

 

[honestbharani]

Virat is unlucky to be in the generation of the Fab 4 and especially Smith's hot streak. He would be a clear world best in other eras. I think all of the Fab 4 are ATGs. So obviously for me Virat is in the ATG pantheon of Asian batsmen.

That said, there is a reason why I never want to compare records of players who are still active against players who have retired. But I will be very very surprised if he does not retire as an ATG.

 

[Shady Slim]

it honestly is my firm belief that kohli's 2014-15 tour here was seriously an atg overseas performance by a bat, at least in australia tbh

and i'm taking it one further, to say that but for kohli doing what he did that tour, we would still in the year of our lord 2022 be talking about how there still hasn't been a team from the subcontinent to win an australian summer. india does not win either of their most recent tours if not for king kohli's breaches of fortress australia in 2014-15, and we would be looking back on those tours as really hilarious "lol australia had such a poor team and yet still blanked india" series as a laughing stock

 

[subshakerz]

it honestly is my firm belief that kohli's 2014-15 tour here was seriously an atg overseas performance by a bat, at least in australia tbh

and i'm taking it one further, to say that but for kohli doing what he did that tour, we would still in the year of our lord 2022 be talking about how there still hasn't been a team from the subcontinent to win an australian summer. india does not win either of their most recent tours if not for king kohli's breaches of fortress australia in 2014-15, and we would be looking back on those tours as really hilarious "lol australia had such a poor team and yet still blanked india" series as a laughing stock

I think India's batsmen had lost their fear of touring Australia a long time way back in 2003-4 and that had passed onto the next gen of India's players. Yeah they got hammered in 2011 and 2014/5 but I think they were just outplayed, not overawed. In 2011, their old batting guard were done, and in 2014/5 they didn't have the bowling to compete but Kohli, Rahane and Vijay all scored runs. Then by 2018 then finally had the bowling but their batsmen were always going to be competitive.

But Kohli's four tons in 2014/5 were exceptional even by Indian batting standards regardless of the pitches.

 

[cnerd123]

Smith is so similar to Kohli in this aspect as well - unorthodox approach and strong competitive spirit.

I think Smith has a much better understanding of his own game, and so has very solid processes in place. He's very methodical about how he scores his runs, despite occasionally appearing extremely unorthodox.

Can't say the same of Kohli. He's got great talent and hunger, but doesn't seem as methodical. That's why his decline has been steeper than Smith's I feel.

 

[Shady Slim]

I think India's batsmen had lost their fear of touring Australia a long time way back in 2003-4 and that had passed onto the next gen of India's players. Yeah they got hammered in 2011 and 2014/5 but I think they were just outplayed, not overawed. In 2011, their old batting guard were done, and in 2014/5 they didn't have the bowling to compete but Kohli, Rahane and Vijay all scored runs. Then by 2018 then finally had the bowling but their batsmen were always going to be competitive.

But Kohli's four tons in 2014/5 were exceptional even by Indian batting standards regardless of the pitches.

tbf they didn't get hammered in 2014-15; the result was 2-0, and could have easily been 1-1. and rahane and vijay were also a huge part of that and both played some excellent knocks (vijay's vigils at adelaide and ton at the gabba, rahane's gamesaver in sydney notable) but imho what kohli did wasn't just to score well but to treat the big mean australian attack with utter disdain. made australia in australia look like england in australia during a period where australia at home were largely untouchable

 

[subshakerz]

tbf they didn't get hammered in 2014-15; the result was 2-0, and could have easily been 1-1. and rahane and vijay were also a huge part of that and both played some excellent knocks (vijay's vigils at adelaide and ton at the gabba, rahane's gamesaver in sydney notable) but imho what kohli did wasn't just to score well but to treat the big mean australian attack with utter disdain. made australia in australia look like england in australia during a period where australia at home were largely untouchable

Yes agreed but my point was that part of Kohli's confidence had to have come from the fact that for over a decade, Indian batsmen were quite comfortable playing in Australia. It had lost its fear factor it had in the nineties.

 

[anil1405]

Why can't he peak again? His issues seem more mental than technical.

Yeah. It's more of a mental aspect and he is overdosed with cricket. He needs a proper break to reset his mind which unfortunately he isn't willing to take.

He should give up playing t20's completely and focus on important ODI tournaments and tests.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Smith has a much better understanding of his own game, and so has very solid processes in place. He's very methodical about how he scores his runs, despite occasionally appearing extremely unorthodox.

Can't say the same of Kohli. He's got great talent and hunger, but doesn't seem as methodical. That's why his decline has been steeper than Smith's I feel.

Steve Smith has averaged 39 in his decline, Kohli 28. So yeah Kohli's is worse.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

In mid 2001 when Brian Lara was 32 years old, his average was below 50, it was 47.68 after 80 Tests. He had only scored 15 hundreds at that point in his career.

Lara was accused by some of not always taking the game seriously, or having his head screwed on properly. You'd think his technique wouldn't of held up the older he got. You wouldn't of been re-missed to think that his best days were behind him at that point.

Lara then went onto a huge run, scored 19 hundreds in his final 50 Tests. Averaged over 60 in that period.

Kohli is 33 years old. It'd be naïve to think Kohli couldn't rise again in a similar vein.

 

[subshakerz]

In mid 2001 when Brian Lara was 32 years old, his average was below 50, it was 47.68 after 80 Tests. He had only scored 15 hundreds at that point in his career.

Lara was accused by some of not always taking the game seriously, or having his head screwed on properly. You'd think his technique wouldn't of held up the older he got. You wouldn't of been re-missed to think that his best days were behind him at that point.

Lara then went onto a huge run, scored 19 hundreds in his final 50 Tests. Averaged over 60 in that period.

Kohli is 33 years old. It'd be naïve to think Kohli couldn't rise again in a similar vein.

True. But the difference is between 96 to 2001 when Lara had his dip, Lara still could occasionally have great performances, his 99 series for example. His problem was consistency which he fixed.

Kohli's slump has been precipitous and he hasn't been able to even show flashes of greatness. I still have faith that he can rebound but the clock is ticking.

 

[Flem274*]

Kohli will be much better for cracking just one ton against someone who isn't Zim/Bang/SL etc.

I kind of expected the NZ, England and Australian (random overseas selection) charities to deal him one out by now but there is still time.

 

[anil1405]

Kohli is 33 years old. It'd be naïve to think Kohli couldn't rise again in a similar vein.

The major issue is number of games players are playing these days. Having a proper rest between tours makes a world of difference to the body and mind.

Couple of more years of peak Kohli would be fun to watch though.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

True. But the difference is between 96 to 2001 when Lara had his dip, Lara still could occasionally have great performances, his 99 series for example. His problem was consistency which he fixed.

Kohli's slump has been precipitous and he hasn't been able to even show flashes of greatness. I still have faith that he can rebound but the clock is ticking.

I think he would've scored a 100 in South Africa last year but he ran out of partners because India's batting was so bad and they had a long tail.

Once he breaks the hundred hoodoo the floodgates will likely open again.

I predict he'll have a big series when Australia tour India.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The major issue is number of games players are playing these days. Having a proper rest between tours makes a world of difference to the body and mind.

Couple of more years of peak Kohli would be fun to watch though.

It is also the mental pressure of IPL. Instead of playing some Ranji trophy (or early season county cricket), all format players who are heavily involved with the IPL can't get any downtime.

 

[Burgey]

Smith is so similar to Kohli in this aspect as well - unorthodox approach and strong competitive spirit.

What do you see as unorthodox about Kohli's technique? It seems pretty orthodox to me. Smith I can understand with the big walk across to off and those exaggerated movements which make him look weird, but I don't get that with Kohli tbh. I can see how he goes harder at the ball than an older school player and plays out in front a bit, but I don't think him unorthodox. Actually Smith, whose technique looks weird AF actually plays the ball much later than Kohli imo, as do Root and Williamson.

 

[srbhkshk]

Kohli's slump has been precipitous and he hasn't been able to even show flashes of greatness. I still have faith that he can rebound but the clock is ticking.

I don't know if that's completely true, at least in tests he has played quite a few innings (which eventually weren't particularly noteworthy) where he did look decent. He just isn't able to concentrate and focus the way he could earlier.

His troubles in LOIs are more severe imo and he is dealing both with the problem he has in tests as well as a general lethargy and lack of initiative in his batting even when he does score runs. His T20 batting template used to be something like 10(8) -> 35(25) -> 50(33). Now a days it seems to be 10(8) -> 35(33) -> 50(45).

 

[Xuhaib]

I don't know Kohli crazy fitness regime may have contributed in his decline maybe the best fitness regime for a batsman is still just old school running laps of the ground in high volumes.

I know someone who regularly has dinners with Misbah and he said Misbah eats like crazy never takes bread though but ensures a 10k run 5-6 days a week he was informed YK also followed a similar traing regime and they were able to maintain their peaks past their 40 even with dodgy Pakistani birth certificates

 

[subshakerz]

Frankly, Kohli just seems to have lost that fire, that appetite for big runs. It is almost like he feels there aren't any more peaks to climb and he just started regressing.