Where does Imran Khan rank?

[subshakerz]

But I thought selected peaks don't count on here. Botham is fastest man in history to 200 wickets and 2000 runs but only his last 30 tests as a fat useless bastard counts

What do you think of Imran's peak. Do you take back your comments?

 

[Qlder]

What do you think of Imran's peak. Do you take back your comments?

Nope, Imran was always a #8 batsman until he wasn't bowling

Only 5th best allrounder behind Sobers, Botham, Miller and Hadlee (which is still excellent)

 

[subshakerz]

Nope, Imran was always a #8 batsman until he wasn't bowling

Except in the bowling peak I gave, he is literally scoring at 6 and 7 as well.

 

[trundler]

Nope, Imran was always a #8 batsman until he wasn't bowling

Better batting record in the 80s than Gus Logie, Graeme Wood, Kris Srikanth, Jeff Crowe and Chris Tavare. All of them played as specialist batsmen throughout the 80s. That means Imran makes every side during his career as a specialist batsman along with being at times the best bowler in the world. You have highly high standards for #8s.

 

[Qlder]

Better batting record in the 80s than Gus Logie, Graeme Wood, Kris Srikanth, Jeff Crowe and Chris Tavare. All of them played as specialist batsmen throughout the 80s. That means Imran makes every side during his career as a specialist batsman along with being at times the best bowler in the world. You have highly high standards for #8s.

Lol at Logie, Wood, Jeff Crowe and Tavare ever being in a good batsman discussion

Left out Srikanth as don't remember anything about his batting

 

[Bitmap]

Top 5 for sure

 

[trundler]

Lol at Logie, Wood, Jeff Crowe and Tavare ever being in a good batsman discussion

Left out Srikanth as don't remember anything about his batting

They were all regular batsmen for their sides. I'm not saying Imran was a world beater with the bat but he was better than a lot of specialist batsmen during his career and an above average batsman. He almost always batted higher than 8 during his bowling peak. If his numbers had been poor higher up the order like Vettori I would've agreed with you but they aren't. It's true that his batting went up a level when he focused on it more after injuries but he was better than a #8 for the majority of his career. He wasn't as good a batsman as Botham obviously but an ok #6 and great #7 by batting standards during his career.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

For me, easily top 5. Funny enough though, even amongst Asians I've seen him ranked below Sachin and Murali which is absurd imo. But then those same voters get upset when he's ranked well below Sobers. Make it make sense....

I rate Imran pretty highly (top 5 and may be the strongest case for no.3) but he is well below Sobers for me.

The simple point for me is Sobers definitely would have left all the all-rounders in any era for dead which Imran couldn’t in his own era.

 

[Slifer]

Sure. I never said what you claimed though. We both basically agree on him being "easily top 5".

That's fair.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm lazy, can you show me how he did as a #6 bat when he opened the bowling. I doubt it ever happened according to my memory but that was 40 years ago

Dude, I literally told you for the peak bowling period period in question, he is rotating his batting at 6/7/8.

 

[trundler]

I'm lazy, can you show me how he did as a #6 bat when he opened the bowling. I doubt it ever happened according to my memory but that was 40 years ago

Shifting goal posts now. You said Imran was only a #8 when he was bowling. This is false. He played 70 tests in the top 7 and virtually always opened the bowling. Only took 15 wickets when he didn't. So he played about 70 of his 88 tests as a top 7 batsman who opened the bowling. Much more than just a #8 when he was bowling.

 

[ma1978]

A lot of SC cricket was looked down on in that era by western hemisphere countries tbh. He, Kapil and Gavaskar (to a lesser extent than the other two imho, but was still important) had a lot to do with that changing.

it felt like this really continued until the late 1990s, particularly for India. Reality was Pakistanthrough the 2000s was much more developed than India, and Pakistani cricket got more respect partly because there was more county cricket interaction. But even then, I think you’re absolutely right about the perception. Even if they had some talent, there was such little money in SC cricket that it was always an afterthought.

 

[Burgey]

it felt like this really continued until the late 1990s, particularly for India. Reality was Pakistanthrough the 2000s was much more developed than India, and Pakistani cricket got more respect partly because there was more county cricket interaction. But even then, I think you’re absolutely right about the perception. Even if they had some talent, there was such little money in SC cricket that it was always an afterthought.

I think the respect for Pakistan came sooner because they had very good quicks from the mid-late 80s onwards which made them more of a consistent threat in non-SC countries than India.

 

[ma1978]

Imran is statistically notably better by every measure.

Imran has fewer wickets at an average that is less than a point better (statistically insignificant)

Their strike rates are almost on top of each other too

 

[subshakerz]

Imran has fewer wickets at an average that is less than a point better (statistically insignificant)

Their strike rates are almost on top of each other too

Imran is slightly better in averages, SR and WPM without even considering that he played several tests either not bowling or bowling as a part timer as he stretched his career due to batting. Wasim played more against minnows and is not nearly as rounded across countries too. Imran was also more destructive too on his day.

Imran was better.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the respect for Pakistan came sooner because they had very good quicks from the mid-late 80s onwards which made them more of a consistent threat in non-SC countries than India.

I always felt it was more a perceived threat than actual threat though. For all the great seamers Pak produces, most of them seem better suited to run amok home than away for some reason.

Not talking about Imran here at all, but its a nice tangent coz at the surface level, you always think "Ah, Pak has good fast bowlers, they will be a threat in Aus" for example and yet they never really are.

They do seem to enjoy the Eng and NZ swing for some reason.

 

[Chin Music]

I always felt it was more a perceived threat than actual threat though. For all the great seamers Pak produces, most of them seem better suited to run amok home than away for some reason.

Not talking about Imran here at all, but its a nice tangent coz at the surface level, you always think "Ah, Pak has good fast bowlers, they will be a threat in Aus" for example and yet they never really are.

They do seem to enjoy the Eng and NZ swing for some reason.

I think it is because you have to bowl a fuller length in England/NZ than you do in Australia. They are used to that at home, whereas in Aus, the generally non swinging ball will likely disappear after just sliding onto the bat all too nicely.

 

[smash84]

I think it is because you have to bowl a fuller length in England/NZ than you do in Australia. They are used to that at home, whereas in Aus, the generally non swinging ball will likely disappear after just sliding onto the bat all too nicely.

This

Pakistani bowlers have always been swing reliant. Mohammad Asif was an exception who was a seam bowler, but other than that almost all have relied on swing to get wickets, which is why they generally do well in England.

 

[The Sean]

@Ali TT apologies if you have explained this already and I missed it, but is your rating of Imran here a serious one or a joke/protest vote?

 

[Ali TT]

@Ali TT apologies if you have explained this already and I missed it, but is your rating of Imran here a serious one or a joke/protest vote?

Moved him to top 25