Where does Imran Khan rank?

[ma1978]

Imran makes most ATG XIs but misses a few ATG XI since selectors stupidly give his spot to Wasim for left arm variety, who is inferior in every way.

how do you reckon as a bowler Wasim is inferior? They are statistically indistinct and Wasim at least appears to do better on the eye test

 

[ma1978]

Who was the best all-rounder from mid to late 80s?

alan border lol

 

[Qlder]

Who was the best all-rounder from mid to late 80s?

Definitely not Botham! I always thought Hadlee late 80's and looking it up he averaged 31.80 with the bat and 20.33 with the ball from 1985

 

[Ali TT]

I'm starting to think all-rounders need a separate ranking system to the rest. If you're picking an ATG XI you have a surplus of batters and bowlers who are better in their specialist discipline than any all-rounder. Even though he has a case as a bowler, there's still a few above him so Imran can't be in my top 10 (or 11) for that matter, but he'd be #2 or #3 all-rounder.

 

[Qlder]

I'm starting to think all-rounders need a separate ranking system to the rest. If you're picking an ATG XI you have a surplus of batters and bowlers who are better in their specialist discipline than any all-rounder. Even though he has a case as a bowler, there's still a few above him so Imran can't be in my top 10 (or 11) for that matter, but he'd be #2 or #3 all-rounder.

Should vote in poll then. Would be another vote for top 25 as not top 10

 

[Burgey]

But in his prime, was he perceived as an elite of the elite - you hear fans of the 70s/80s talk about Hadlee, Botham, Gavaskar, Richards, Lillee more than Khan. Was speaking to a member of the NZ team from that time and he definitely rated all those ahead of Khan. Also a lot of Miandad fans in Pakistan hate him. This could be small sample size and selectivity bias.

A lot of SC cricket was looked down on in that era by western hemisphere countries tbh. He, Kapil and Gavaskar (to a lesser extent than the other two imho, but was still important) had a lot to do with that changing.

 

[Qlder]

A lot of SC cricket was looked down on in that era by western hemisphere countries tbh. He, Kapil and Gavaskar (to a lesser extent than the other two imho, but was still important) had a lot to do with that changing.

I call BS on that. That era included Imran, Kapil, Gavaskar and Miandad, all highly rated as some of best in the World. You must be talking 60's era?

 

[Burgey]

Nope. Absolutely not.

 

[Qlder]

Nope. Absolutely not.

Then I guess it was just you and your circle that looked down on SC in the 70's then

 

[Burgey]

No, it wasn't. Aus didn't tour India for 15 years between 71 and 86. They rarely toured Pakistan either. Indian and Pakistan tours here in the 70s and 80s drew terrible crowds and the attitude of most of the cricketing media and establishment back then was they were tolerated rather than anticipated. It's just how it was. The achievements of the SC players weren't acknowledged cf players form other countries here. When India toured Aus here in 80/81, the ads for the series were basically introductions to the Indian players, despite them including guys like Gavaskar, Vishwanath, Vengsarkar () and Kapil who were complete guns by then. I don't think any Indians were scouted out by WSC, and only a few Pakistan guys. They were often an afterthought here.

 

[Qlder]

No, it wasn't. Aus didn't tour India for 15 years between 71 and 86.

Very selective and wrong. Aus toured India for 6 tests in 1979, as well as 5 tests in 1969 and 4 tests in 1986, so 15 Tests in 17 years which is on par with most aussie tours that are not England (and is almost more tests than in England same period)

 

[Burgey]

Yeah fair point. You still haven’t addressed the argument that SC teams back then were viewed here as second rate though.

 

[The Sean]

Very selective and wrong. Aus toured India for 6 tests in 1979, as well as 5 tests in 1969 and 4 tests in 1986, so 15 Tests in 17 years which is on par with most aussie tours that are not England (and is almost more tests than in England same period)

To be fair, 1969 isn't between 1971 and 1986. And the 1986 tour itself (which was only three Tests, not four) is the bookend of the "between" threshold. So it was one tour of six Tests between 1971 and 1986, and another three Test tour at the end of '86.

In that same time period Australia toured in England in 1972, 1975, 1977, 1980 (for the one-off Centenary Test), 1981 and 1985, and played 27 Tests.

 

[Qlder]

Yeah fair point. You still haven’t addressed the argument that SC teams back then were viewed here as second rate though.

I can only speak of my own experience but Aus losing 7 wkts for 5 runs in 1979 vs Pak woke me up to SC talent. Sarfraz Nawaz taking 9-86 was mind blowing

Fun fact: Imran took 0-73 off 27 overs when Sarfraz ran amok

 

[Slifer]

For me, easily top 5. Funny enough though, even amongst Asians I've seen him ranked below Sachin and Murali which is absurd imo. But then those same voters get upset when he's ranked well below Sobers. Make it make sense....

 

[trundler]

But then those same voters get upset when he's ranked well below Sobers

Prove it.

 

[Qlder]

For me, easily top 5. Funny enough though, even amongst Asians I've seen him ranked below Sachin and Murali which is absurd imo. But then those same voters get upset when he's ranked well below Sobers. Make it make sense....

Why is it absurd when an ATG Batsman and ATG bowler are rated ahead of a good batsman and almost ATG bowler....makes sense to me

 

[Slifer]

Why is it absurd when an ATG Batsman and ATG bowler are rated ahead of a good batsman and almost ATG bowler....makes sense to me

Imran is an atg bowler not "almost" and he was a handy batsman. Therefore as an overall cricketer he's better. His bowling roughly matches Sachin's batting but Sachin is not remotely close in bowling to Imran's batting. Imran's bowling matches Muralis but again Murali is not remotely as good a batsman

 

[Slifer]

Prove it.

Yeah no. I'm not going down that rabbit hole with you. Rather save my brain cells.

 

[trundler]

Yeah no. I'm not going down that rabbit hole with you. Rather save my brain cells.

Sure. I never said what you claimed though. We both basically agree on him being "easily top 5".