Where does Dale Steyn stack up historically

[Prince EWS]

God damn it, I've got him at either 5th or 6th, and your poll options are going to force me to choose.

 

[OverratedSanity]

God damn it, I've got him at either 5th or 6th, and your poll options are going to force me to choose.

I feel like this depends on whether you consider Barnes a spinner or not

 

[Prince EWS]

I feel like this depends on whether you consider Barnes a spinner or not

I'm not counting Barnes. Whether you think he was a spinner or a seamer I think it's hard to argue he was a "pace bowler". I find Steyn v Imran difficult and place the other four you mentioned above him. I've bitten the bullet and voted top five; I think my respect for Imran the overall cricketer may make me slightly over-rate his bowling sometimes (even if my statistical model also actually has him ahead of Steyn).

 

[bagapath]

Marshall McGrath Hadlee Lillee Truman Steyn Ambrose Akram Imran Lindwall Donald

Should make anybody’s top ten I guess
Top five worthy I agree

Rabada will join this list soon

 

[h_hurricane]

A killer Steyn stat. More 5 wicket hauls in victories than any pace bowler in history.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[vcs]

Hadlee's numbers there, **** me

 

[OverratedSanity]

Top 10 for me.

The only problem I have with Steyn's stats is that he has a shitload of tail-ender wickets.

Steyn picks up both top order and lower order wickets at absurd frequency. The fact that he's able to get a lot of tailenders out should be a positive. Here, Ill do a very basic Steyn vs McGrath analysis, since McGrath has a well deserved reputation of getting a lot of top order wickets:

- Steyn dismissed top 4 batsmen 192 times in 171 innings, which is 1.12 wickets/innings. McGrath picked up 282 in 243 which is 1.16 wickets/innings. Basically identical.

- Steyn dismissed tailenders (say numbers 8 to 11) 139 times in 171 innings, a ratio of 0.8. McGrath picked up 142 in 243, a ratio of 0.58. That's a more significant difference.

Point being, Steyn is basically as good statistically as McGrath at getting the top guys out, but was more prolific against the tail. That shouldn't somehow be held against him.

 

[Spark]

Will take McGrath-Marshall-Steyn to be my ATG pace attack any day. Bounce, skid, seam, swing and reverse swing.

I’ll have one of these, thanks

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

A killer Steyn stat. More 5 wicket hauls in victories than any pace bowler in history.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Can we make it a bt harder...in defending a total. 4th innings bowling

 

[Malcolm]

Steyn picks up both top order and lower order wickets at absurd frequency. The fact that he's able to get a lot of tailenders out should be a positive. Here, Ill do a very basic Steyn vs McGrath analysis, since McGrath has a well deserved reputation of getting a lot of top order wickets:

- Steyn dismissed top 4 batsmen 192 times in 171 innings, which is 1.12 wickets/innings. McGrath picked up 282 in 243 which is 1.16 wickets/innings. Basically identical.

- Steyn dismissed tailenders (say numbers 8 to 11) 139 times in 171 innings, a ratio of 0.8. McGrath picked up 142 in 243, a ratio of 0.58. That's a more significant difference.

Point being, Steyn is basically as good statistically as McGrath at getting the top guys out, but was more prolific against the tail. That shouldn't somehow be held against him.

Steyn is as good as McGrath at getting the top order out. But we don't rate bowlers solely based on their ability to get a batsman out. We should also consider their ability to bowl economically. That is why we use " bowling average " (which is the product of a bowler's wicket-taking ability/strike rate and the economy rate) as the basic parameter for comparing bowlers.

 

[Malcolm]

Steyn averages around 29 against top 7 while McGrath(since 2002) averages around 23. As you pointed out Steyn has a better strike rate against top 7 than McGrath (53 vs 58).

 

[trundler]

McGrath didn't get much of a crack at tails though, did he?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn is as good as McGrath at getting the top order out. But we don't rate bowlers solely based on their ability to get a batsman out. We should also consider their ability to bowl economically. That is why we use " bowling average " (which is the product of a bowler's wicket-taking ability/strike rate and the economy rate) as the basic parameter for comparing bowlers.

Sure but I was only responding to that point specifically

 

[Dendarii]

Rabada will join this list soon

It's ridiculous to think that Steyn may be gone but South Africa still have someone with a record comparable to his.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Barnes
Akram
Hadlee
Marshall
McGrath
Lillee
Steyn
Trueman

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Top 10 and depending on what mood you in top 5 as one day you may favour Ambrose or Imran over him and another not such is the closeness among them.

 

[Stefan9]

Top 5.

 

[Red]

Not to take the attention away from Steyn, but how often does his countryman Allan Donald get overlooked in these threads? Donald was phenomenal.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Steyn averages around 29 against top 7 while McGrath(since 2002) averages around 23. As you pointed out Steyn has a better strike rate against top 7 than McGrath (53 vs 58).

I don't think any non-biased could realistically rate Steyn over McGrath, but that shouldn't take anything away from Steyn. He's still the bowler of his generation.

 

[trundler]

I don't think any non-biased could realistically rate Steyn over McGrath, but that shouldn't take anything away from Steyn. He's still the bowler of his generation.

C'mon mate. It's a toss up at that level. Actually, having a stong inclination either way would reveal a bias, if anything.