What is so wrong with the West Indies?

[roseboy64]

That's pretty poor....

 

[Craig]

IMO, for a team like the Windies, a specialist captain would be a very good idea. Who, however, could do such a job? Perhaps Robert Samuels?

Is he still play FC cricket?

 

[garage flower]

Jimmy Adams wasn't a bad captain but he never got much of a chance.

A very nice bloke, but from what I can remember a pretty negative and unimaginative captain.

 

[garage flower]

It truly baffles me that so many people can still talk-up Omari Banks as has happened on this thread.
He's one of the most wayward bowlers I've ever seen. And I have actually seen him now, rather than just realised he must be because he got hammered whenever he bowled.

Not so long ago I expect Steve Harmison was one of the most wayward bowlers you've ever seen and he's now arguably the best fast bowler in the world.

Omari is able to generate bounce and turn, is a good batsman and a pretty good fielder. He also seems to have a good temperament. He is worth persevering with at the moment.

 

[garage flower]

IMO, for a team like the Windies, a specialist captain would be a very good idea. Who, however, could do such a job? Perhaps Robert Samuels?

I think a "lame duck" captain may just add to the problems. If however Windies were to go down that road, Courtney Browne of Barbados (former Windies 'keeper) seems to have the best reputation. Don't know whether that's because he's a noticeably good captain from a tactical/motivational point of view or because Barbados are very successful at the moment.

 

[roseboy64]

I think it's because Barbados are successful.BTW, Robert Samuels no longer plays FC cricket.He's a coach now ever since he got sacked as captain.He coaches the local U-19 team and my school also.

 

[ash chaulk]

i havent read any of the replys but this is why west indies arnt so great....


No Nagamootoo
No Cuffy
No Junior Murray

 

[garage flower]

i havent read any of the replys but this is why west indies arnt so great....


No Nagamootoo
No Cuffy
No Junior Murray

I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek, otherwise you haven't watched much cricket either.

 

[Richard]

yeah well I would rather WI gave him a chance.

Ok, he isnt consistantly on line, but he is only 22 years old and has only played 31 first class games in his career. He has the tools to be a good one, he is tall and so should be able to get bounce, he does turn it and there have been odd spells where he has bowled pretty good.

You have now watched him play 2 test matches Richard,a bit early to write him off isnt it

He's a fingerspinner - he'll only turn the ball on pitches that turn.
On wickets that Giles has shown have plenty in them for fingerspinners, he's averaged over 100.
22 or not, he's got some serious, serious work to do on accuracy if he wants to come anywhere close to being useful on these type of wickets - and remember, they don't occur very often.

 

[Richard]

Not so long ago I expect Steve Harmison was one of the most wayward bowlers you've ever seen and he's now arguably the best fast bowler in the world.

Omari is able to generate bounce and turn, is a good batsman and a pretty good fielder. He also seems to have a good temperament. He is worth persevering with at the moment.

No, Harmison has never been anywhere near as wayward as Banks.
He can turn the ball on wickets the like of which we won't see very often and he's so wayward he averages over 100 on them.
He needs to improve so much it just seems completely impossible to me that he could manage it.

 

[Richard]

Au contraire, 1 ball is usually enough for our Richard to decide whether he likes a player or not - and once he's made his mind up, come hell or high water that player is bad.

Even if he has to remove any game that players taken a wicket in from the analysis, he'll do it and say that the player has an infinte average with the ball!

Keep telling yourself this - it might actually influence it one day!
Fat chance of that.

 

[Craig]

i havent read any of the replys but this is why west indies arnt so great....


No Nagamootoo
No Cuffy
No Junior Murray

I think a goat farmer from Ulaan Baatar will tell you that they are not of international standard (maybe not Cuffy as such).

 

[Slow Love™]

IMO, the West Indians face the same kind of crisis that any team does when they're going through a period of weakness - they're low on confidence. The batting lineup's pretty good, if not completely playing to potential, but the bowling is lousy.

Something that I'm sure really doesn't help with this flagging confidence is the constant treating of the players like ungrateful twelve-year olds, both by sections of the media, (ex-) selectors, commentators and the like. Teams go through periods of being down, and sometimes it comes down to just not having the necessary talent. People talk about structures and organized systems, and while these things are good to have, it's not as if they make any team immune to performing badly. It's not as if we won't one day see the Aussies languishing on the ICC table - it wasn't really that long ago since that was exactly the case (and I grew up watching the Aussies get caned on a fairly regular basis). Times change, and fortunes differ, it's the nature of the game. The savagery of some of the comments directed at the West Indian cricketers just has me scratching my head.

I don't see why a "non-West Indian" is required to coach the side. As far as I'm concerned, that's a highly prejudicial opinion to have - it implies that a West Indian isn't capable of getting the best out of West Indian cricket, and why on earth would anybody think that? It's a very peculiar cultural argument to make - has anybody thought about the implications of insisting that this is necessary for non-Anglo sides to succeed?

I DO think that Lara's a lousy captain and needs to be replaced - in reality this should happen as soon as possible, rather than having figures in West Indian cricket constantly call into question his dedication and level of effort while he holds on to the job. But while I think this change needs to be made, I don't think it'll instantly turn their fortunes around - they simply lack the firepower to bowl sides in the top half of the competition out and win matches.

 

[Craig]

Unless the West Indies pick up a win or two in the last two remain Test matches v England, it is near certain we will see the press conference announcing Ramnaresh Sarwan as captain.

 

[Richard]

And not too long after that before we see the one where Sarwan has been relieved of his duties...

 

[Richard]

I don't see why a "non-West Indian" is required to coach the side. As far as I'm concerned, that's a highly prejudicial opinion to have - it implies that a West Indian isn't capable of getting the best out of West Indian cricket, and why on earth would anybody think that? It's a very peculiar cultural argument to make - has anybody thought about the implications of insisting that this is necessary for non-Anglo sides to succeed?

I'll certainly tell you why history suggests a West Indian coach and chairman-of-selectors isn't capable of getting the best out of West Indian cricket: because so many have had clear biases towards their own nations that selection and coaching becomes less of an issue of getting the best out of West Indies and more one of national pride.
And whether it's a peculiar cultural argument that non-Anglo sides would do best to have an Australian, Kiwi or South African in charge or not, thus far it seems to have been borne-out by national opinion. I don't think many Indians, and certainly not many players, would prefer have anyone other than John Wright in charge. Nor do I think that any Sri Lankan would disagree that the Australian Dav Whatmore is the best coach they've ever had. I don't, however, think that just because Mr. Dyson is a fellow-countryman he'll automatically achieve similar success - though I can see why the SLC have picked him.
I personally think, generally, that all sides do best with a foreigner in charge - IMO Duncan Fletcher, regardless of the fact that he is from an "Anglo" background, is the best coach England have had since the coach took-on the role it has today. I also think that the Englishman Bob Woolmer did a fantastic job with South Africa.
Maybe Australia are an exception to that. Can't see a non-Australian ever coaching Australia. Still doesn't mean there aren't state-bias-selection claims aplenty, though.

 

[marc71178]

Re: Fletcher, it amazes me that the British media have always seemed to be on his side, yet the knives are all out for Sven Goran Eriksson (even though he's done IMO an equally comparable job)

 

[superkingdave]

Re: Fletcher, it amazes me that the British media have always seemed to be on his side, yet the knives are all out for Sven Goran Eriksson (even though he's done IMO an equally comparable job)

To my knowledge Duncan Fletcher has never picked Phil Neville!




Although he has picked Rikki Clarke

 

[Richard]

Re: Fletcher, it amazes me that the British media have always seemed to be on his side, yet the knives are all out for Sven Goran Eriksson (even though he's done IMO an equally comparable job)

It doesn't amaze me - the media are as fickle as they come.
It does help Duncan that he doesn't give them the extra firepower than Sven has provided at times.
If you remove the excuses-for-having-a-go and force them to concentrate on the stuff that actually matters, it's surprising how much of the ammo you can take away.

 

[luckyeddie]

Although he has picked Rikki Clarke

<quack> watch it...