What is so wrong with the West Indies?

[Andre]

I agree.

I would rather see an 'ugly' hundred from Gayle when he has to bat all day for it, then score it off 84 balls.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If he's made a hundred, it doesn't matter how he makes it. It's more that when he will recklessly get out between one and thirty that there is a problem.

As for a potient Gayle hundred, his hundred against Bangladesh this year took the full day give or take, and his NatWest ton against England was a patient and mature knock. I think, infact, he is maturing as a batsman and turning into a more than competent Test cricketer.

 

[Craig]

What I am saying Andre is that if i had a choice of him making a quick century or a slower century, then I would take a the slower one as it is against his natural style.

 

[garage flower]

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If he's made a hundred, it doesn't matter how he makes it. It's more that when he will recklessly get out between one and thirty that there is a problem.

As for a potient Gayle hundred, his hundred against Bangladesh this year took the full day give or take, and his NatWest ton against England was a patient and mature knock. I think, infact, he is maturing as a batsman and turning into a more than competent Test cricketer.

Gayle's had an excellent tour and if Devon Smith fulfills his promise Windies will just be a no. 6 short of a superb top 6 (at least until Lara retires!).

In terms of overall problems, I think some of it is down to the coaching structure in regional cricket. Windies are producing world class age group teams right up to U19 level, but then the development of players seems to stall and they fall behind their peers in other countries by the time they reach the international scene.

The really frustrating thing is the continued failure to improve on the basics, not necessarily with regard to batting and bowling, but the fielding in particular and other areas like running between the wickets. There really is no excuse for failure to improve in these areas and if it's a case of the captain/coach being unable to motivate players then they need to be replaced because there isn't the depth of talent to remove the players themselves. Having said that, Sarwan is often one of the worst culprits for "switching off" in the field so I'm not sure whether he'd improve matters as captain.

 

[Andre]

What I am saying Andre is that if i had a choice of him making a quick century or a slower century, then I would take a the slower one as it is against his natural style.

I understand what you are saying, and this comment above just makes it sound more silly. If his natural style is to score hundreds at a fast pace, for god sakes let him do it! He's still scored a hundred.

If he scores a hundred, the ends justifies the means IMO. If he gets out for a flashy 20, then that's when things get disappointing.

 

[Piper]

I think the talent is there with players like Best, Bravo and Banks. They just dont have any discipline in the team. I think they need a new coach and captain, i know Lara is a good a player but i dont think he has what it takes to be a captain who wins matches.

 

[Arjun]

There is a lot of talent. Only temperament is an issue. Chris Gayle, for instance, is a genuine match-winner, being a big built, aggressive batsman, but wrong shot selection has been his weakness quite often.

The batsmen try to hit too many shots. Not bad agaisnt average Indian pace attacks on flat pitches, but not so good against spinners on slow wickets. Or against seaming deliveries in New Zealand. Runs between the wickets and occupation of the crease is more important.

Lara is not the worst captain they have. He tries to think differently. It just happens, that some strategies- bowling first on a flat Barbados pitch- fail. He needs the support of his players, especially as fielders- they have been weak in that aspect.

They don't need a spinner- it is not something that fits in well with West Indian cricket. They need to play to their strength, fast bowling. Especially against teams that are apprehensive against express pace. Their top 4 oblwers are seamers, so it should stay that way.

 

[Swervy]

They don't need a spinner- it is not something that fits in well with West Indian cricket. They need to play to their strength, fast bowling. Especially against teams that are apprehensive against express pace. Their top 4 oblwers are seamers, so it should stay that way.

times have changed. WI of 20 years ago got away with not having a spinner because a) the pitches in WI were a lot quicker then and b) and this is the main reason, the quicks for WI back then were simply good enough.

the fast bowling now for WI isnt good enough to not have a spinning option

 

[JASON]

Lara cannot carry the whole Team by himself. While Sarwan, Gayle and occasionally Chanderpaul have performed in crisis and tight situations,they don't seem to perform collectively at the same time.

IMO they need a decent coach, who can make them believe in their strength and perform to their ability.

Someone like Dav Whatmore could change their fortunes by making them believe in their ability and by making them play to their strengths.

West Indians have fallen backwards with their own coaches and they need to look outwards to an overseas coach, for whatever people may say about todays coaches being armed with big laptops, I believe devising Team strategies based on opposition Team players and their weaknesses and computerised analysis of various details of team perfomance has come to stay now.

 

[Timewell]

I think it's basically because of shoddy leadership, poor man-management and a lack of fire (excluding Best) to win. I get the feeling that there is no passion or inspiration in the side - which means Lara is not doing his job. He should be sacked in my opinion...and so should the board.

 

[roseboy64]

It's more to do with the administration.The players don't get enough first class experience.The West Indies B team was a good idea to develop young cricketers and they also had a university team for just one season(with Jeff Dujon taking the reigns this year.They scrapped these ideas when they redesigned their FC system not giving them enough to chance to improve.What about the young players from the U-19 age groups who can't yet make their national squads?They may lose interest in the game or lose skill from not playing.

Also the amount of matches played is too little and then they take away some of the teams so even though they get more matches next season afew more wouldn't hurt.It all comes down to proffessionalism.The top teams in the world all have top class proffessional leagues while the West Indies have none.

 

[Arjun]

times have changed. WI of 20 years ago got away with not having a spinner because a) the pitches in WI were a lot quicker then and b) and this is the main reason, the quicks for WI back then were simply good enough.

the fast bowling now for WI isnt good enough to not have a spinning option

The pacers are still their main strength. As Clive Lloyd once said, there is no point in picking a spinner just to have one in the team. That's the only reason to pick spinners in this WI team. They're not as good as the top 4 fast bowlers, and not good enough to figure in a playing XI, so 4 fast bowlers are not a bad option. They just have to have the ball in the right pace.

 

[Swervy]

The pacers are still their main strength. As Clive Lloyd once said, there is no point in picking a spinner just to have one in the team. That's the only reason to pick spinners in this WI team. They're not as good as the top 4 fast bowlers, and not good enough to figure in a playing XI, so 4 fast bowlers are not a bad option. They just have to have the ball in the right pace.

Omari Banks looks pretty good to me.

I personally think WI need a spinner in there lend give a bit of variety,and I think they need to give Banks time to develop into the role

 

[Richard]

It truly baffles me that so many people can still talk-up Omari Banks as has happened on this thread.
He's one of the most wayward bowlers I've ever seen. And I have actually seen him now, rather than just realised he must be because he got hammered whenever he bowled.
I think Lance Gibbs got it right recently when he said that he didn't think most of the players cared.
Because if they did, they'd try as hard as they could to make themselves better.
And it's been observed in all of the last 3 series (home and away), in which I've listened to commentary aplenty, that they're just not putting in anything like the neccessary effort.
A foreign coach, just like with India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, I firmly believe would help, but it won't in itself make all the neccessary difference - real authority and leadership is needed, as importantly in the top people at The WICB as the team coach.

 

[anzac]

call it what you like - discipline / professionalism / application...............

a comment during the recent ODI series summed it up for me - NZL & WI were playing & from memory there was a delayed start due to the weather - NZL came out & went thru a full & intense warm up & targeted their fielding skills - in contrast the WI apparently came out & more or less mucked around.........

a foreign coach would be good but must be careful that he is not a totalitarian & totaly crush the calypso spirit...........

IMO Lara is not a Captain / leader of men - he may be an inspiration & a world class player but it would not appear that he has the ability to gel a group into a team such as Waugh or Fleming..........somehow I don't see a new coach being effective unless he has a Captain whom he can work with and pull the players together........

I know that this may be seen as a somewhat backward step, but perhaps they should revisit the selection strategies of yesteryear - select a Captain who can lead the team and gel them as a unit (in consultation with their new overseas coach), and then build the team around them????????? An example of this strategy could be seen in A Runatunga - certainly not the most gifted of int cricketers but a great Captain & leader who got SRL working together very very well with Dav...........akin to the sort of impact that Wright & Ganguly have had with IND..........

 

[Andre]

IMO, for a team like the Windies, a specialist captain would be a very good idea. Who, however, could do such a job? Perhaps Robert Samuels?

 

[Andre]

Ok, I've just had a look at the West Indian domestic scene and there really is no strong captaincy candidates from there - Samuels wouldn't be up to international cricket again it seems. What is Daren Ganga like as a captain?

 

[anzac]

yeah but the same could be said of the WI Team - not just it's current incarnation but for a number of years now..........so IMO a 'specialist' captain who may be a weakness as a player is not totally out of the question if his skills as Captain can improve the Team as a whole.............

makes me wonder about recent Captains in Walsh & Hooper - were they good / bad or does the Administration have a lot to answer for...............as IMO the Team performances have progressively gone backwards with each Captain / regime..............

 

[Swervy]

It truly baffles me that so many people can still talk-up Omari Banks as has happened on this thread.
He's one of the most wayward bowlers I've ever seen. And I have actually seen him now, rather than just realised he must be because he got hammered whenever he bowled.

yeah well I would rather WI gave him a chance.

Ok, he isnt consistantly on line, but he is only 22 years old and has only played 31 first class games in his career. He has the tools to be a good one, he is tall and so should be able to get bounce, he does turn it and there have been odd spells where he has bowled pretty good.

You have now watched him play 2 test matches Richard,a bit early to write him off isnt it

 

[roseboy64]

The captains never seem to get enough time to fully bring out the best in the team.Jimmy Adams wasn't a bad captain but he never got much of a chance.

 

[marc71178]

You have now watched him play 2 test matches Richard,a bit early to write him off isnt it

Au contraire, 1 ball is usually enough for our Richard to decide whether he likes a player or not - and once he's made his mind up, come hell or high water that player is bad.

Even if he has to remove any game that players taken a wicket in from the analysis, he'll do it and say that the player has an infinte average with the ball!