What does AB De Villiers need achieve to surpass Viv Richards as the ODI's greatest

[vcs]

Tendulkar was waaay more than "pretty numbers" in ODIs FFS.

 

[honestbharani]

Tendulkar was waaay more than "pretty numbers" in ODIs FFS.

why bother vcs? You should have noticed the pattern in his posting by now.

 

[Burner]

I mean you can argue Ponting is better than AB but how on earth is his numbers better than AB's? His only numbers that are better than AB's is his century and half century tallies which are a product of his longevity. There's no one in cricket past or present with numbers as good as ABs.

 

[harsh.ag]

Does that not apply to Tendulkar the most? Two decades of pretty numbers?

 

[Pratters]

Should numbers be less pretty for a player to be greater?

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't know why you're bothering. Troll back like me and Burgey ffs.

 

[viriya]

Sanga has a lower strike rate then what a batsman of his caliber should have, Dhoni I agree with, he could take Ponting's spot. Lara is such a great test batsman I never quite noted him in ODIs :P.

Sanga's record is very comparable to Ponting's when you consider how he never had a decent opening pair to set the platform for him like Ponting did with Hayden and Gilchrist.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sanga's record is very comparable to Ponting's when you consider how he never had a decent opening pair to set the platform for him like Ponting did with Hayden an Gilchrist.

Sanga's overall stats are comparable,but for the majority of his career, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Ponting. He was averaging 35 in the beginning of 2010. His insane last 5 years make his stats look as good as Ponting, but personally, I'd take the guy who was genuinely world class for well over a decade.

 

[srbhkshk]

Sanga's record is very comparable to Ponting's when you consider how he never had a decent opening pair to set the platform for him like Ponting did with Hayden and Gilchrist.

Maybe you are right, I'd still say Sachin/Viv/Kohli/ABD are ahead of Sanga, wasn't all that sure about Ponting in the first place.

 

[srbhkshk]

Sanga's overall stats are comparable,but for the majority of his career, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Ponting. He was averaging 35 in the beginning of 2010. His insane last 5 years make his stats look as good as Ponting, but personally, I'd take the guy who was genuinely world class for well over a decade.

This too actually, Sanga just went beast mode the last few years in his career which I suspect Ponting/Sachin would have too if they had the age on their side since the bowling units seem to be weaker now and an average of 40 is not really considered anything much at all. Can you put out the stats of those 3 guys for their overlapping ODI times?

 

[Spark]

Lay off the less-than-subtle multi accusations please.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lay off the less-than-subtle multi accusations please.

Oh but when I'm at the receiving end it's ok?!

 

[Slifer]

To the original question I reckon Viv and a few others are neck and neck for ODI's greatest batsman but as overall players (batting+bowling +fielding) still Viv (imo) all the way.

 

[harsh.ag]

Oh but when I'm at the receiving end it's ok?!

Yes, because you bring it up/used to bring it up almost as often as the others do/did.

 

[viriya]

Sanga's overall stats are comparable,but for the majority of his career, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Ponting. He was averaging 35 in the beginning of 2010. His insane last 5 years make his stats look as good as Ponting, but personally, I'd take the guy who was genuinely world class for well over a decade.

I didn't say he did great as long as Ponting, but he definitely ended with a comparable career.

In general, people overrate a player's early-mid career performances and ignore their later struggles, so when a player like Sanga does the opposite, the general view of him doesn't change.

 

[viriya]

Maybe you are right, I'd still say Sachin/Viv/Kohli/ABD are ahead of Sanga, wasn't all that sure about Ponting in the first place.

I also consider AB, Viv and Sachin to be ahead. Kohli not quite yet just because of longevity but definitely will soon.

 

[viriya]

This too actually, Sanga just went beast mode the last few years in his career which I suspect Ponting/Sachin would have too if they had the age on their side since the bowling units seem to be weaker now and an average of 40 is not really considered anything much at all. Can you put out the stats of those 3 guys for their overlapping ODI times?

Sanga retired from ODIs aged 38.
Ponting retired from ODIs aged 38.
Sachin retired from ODIs aged 39.

This argument is straight up invalid. Sanga was just plain better than them after 35. You can't just devalue his performances like that.

 

[srbhkshk]

Sanga retired from ODIs aged 38.
Ponting retired from ODIs aged 38.
Sachin retired from ODIs aged 39.

This argument is straight up invalid. Sanga was just plain better than them after 35. You can't just devalue his performances like that.

See, the fact is that year - 2012,13,14 and 15 all are part of the top highest averaging years in ODI cricket. Sanga played in all of them. Both Tendulkar and Ponting were pretty much retired after 2011 world cup, they may have played a few matches here and there but they were done. Now I assume that years - 12 to 17 all being in top 10 is a consequence of batting being easier somehow in those years compared to the other years.

So the point I'm making is that while I'm sure Sanga was a far better player during the later years of his career, he was also helped by the fact that batting was easier in these years. Regardless of that he ended up with slightly inferior stats to both Ponting and definitely inferior stats to Tendulkar. I'd say if Sanga's timeline went the same as Sachin/Ponting you will have to chop a point or two each in both his average and S/R to compensate.

 

[viriya]

See, the fact is that year - 2012,13,14 and 15 all are part of the top highest averaging years in ODI cricket. Sanga played in all of them. Both Tendulkar and Ponting were pretty much retired after 2011 world cup, they may have played a few matches here and there but they were done. Now I assume that years - 12 to 17 all being in top 10 is a consequence of batting being easier somehow in those years compared to the other years.

So the point I'm making is that while I'm sure Sanga was a far better player during the later years of his career, he was also helped by the fact that batting was easier in these years. Regardless of that he ended up with slightly inferior stats to both Ponting and definitely inferior stats to Tendulkar. I'd say if Sanga's timeline went the same as Sachin/Ponting you will have to chop a point or two each in both his average and S/R to compensate.

The mean ODI bowling average from 2000-2009 was 32.4
The mean ODI bowling average from 2010-2015 (when Sanga retired) was 32.6.

Run-making didn't suddenly become easier.

 

[Burner]

I agree with that. Sanga somehow figured out ODI batting in his late years imo. I don't think anyone of the current crop has had quite the run that he had in the world cup.