What do Australians hate about Ganguly

[Richard]

Better in 2004/05 than at any time over the previous 12-17 years ?

England were better in 2004\05-2005 and 2000-2000\01 than at any time since at least 1968-1971. Certainly both occasions were better than the brief spell of decent results 1990-1992.

But 2006-2007 has been shockingly poor in almost every respect. I cannot believe anyone could suggest it has been better than 2000, in any way shape or form.

 

[deira]

Waugh turns Ganguly admirer

STEVE Waugh last night lavished praise on the "king" who showed contempt for him and the game in one of cricket's greatest series.

In a timely gesture before Sourav Ganguly's 100th Test, beginning on Boxing Day, Waugh revealed his begrudging respect for the former Indian captain.

"You don't have to like or dislike him. You have to respect him," he said.

"That's probably the best accolade you can get in international cricket, is earning respect from your own teammates and opposition.

"There are certain things that rub people the wrong way, but that's just him."

The relationship between the two former captains was an intriguing sub-plot of the 2001 and 2003-04 series, the latter Waugh's last before retiring.

On the 2001 tour of India, Ganguly got under Australia's skin by failing to turn up on time for the toss on four occasions during the Test and one-day series, often leaving Waugh standing in the outfield with his blood boiling.

Tension also flared before a one-day game in Indore, India, when Ganguly claimed a victory at the toss.

He was overruled by West Indian match referee Cammie Smith, who declared the coin had landed in Waugh's favour.

When Ganguly reached his half-century in the final one-day game in Goa, he provocatively took a red rag out of his pocket, which seemed a taunt at Waugh's famous handkerchief.

"I think there were times when he pushed it a bit far with the toss," Waugh said.

"It wasn't only myself, the match referee warned him a number of times not to do it and he continued to do it.

"That was a lack of respect. But that was his choice, fair enough. That's dead and buried now.

"But . . . he certainly is a very good player and it's a credit to the way he has come back.

"Being dropped as a captain, in Australia that is a death sentence.

"But in India they give you a chance to get back in the side. He has fought hard to get back in there and he is probably batting as well as he has ever batted.

"That's great resilience, great resistance and that's a good example to the younger players."

Ganguly was controversially axed during Greg Chappell's reign as coach, the drama beginning early in 2005 on the tour of Zimbabwe, when the Australian great privately suggested his skipper concentrate solely on his flagging batting.

Ganguly threatened to leave mid-tour but backed down after some calming words from the team manager.

The spat, unsurprisingly, was quickly made public and bubbled along until he was sacked as skipper and replaced by Rahul Dravid in November, 2005.

Worse was to come for Ganguly when he was dropped from the team in January, 2006.

This sparked fiery street protests in Ganguly's home town of Kolkata and angry speeches in Indian Parliament.

Ganguly vowed to return and his determination didn't surprise those that know the son of a wealthy Kolkata printer.

Nicknamed the Maharaj (King), he lives in a family mansion and has been known to carry himself like royalty.

His perseverance to get what he wants was shown when, against his family's wishes, he secretly dated and married the daughter of a family that ran a rival printing firm.

The decision stunned both families but eventually brought both together.

"I think he has rubbed people up the wrong way," Waugh said.

"That's fine. He's the type of bloke you would want to have on your side. Every side has got those players."

Ganguly returned to the side for the home series against Sri Lanka in 2003 but in the hotbed of politics that is Indian cricket, he was reinstated as a "bowling all-rounder" despite having a bowling average of more than 50.

His reincarnation began to take shape on the 2006-07 tour of South Africa when he was the leading runscorer, and his strong form continued in England mid-year in a breakthrough series win.

The comeback was complete with back-to-back hundreds against Pakistan at home, including a 239 in Bangalore.

Ganguly's 144 at the Gabba four years ago is arguably still his greatest knock, and Waugh knows how desperate the left-hander, who averages a modest 32.46 against Australia, will be to prove himself this summer.

"When you see an Indian side with Ganguly in the line-up, you know it's game on," Waugh said.

 

[Richard]

His perseverance to get what he wants was shown when, against his family's wishes, he secretly dated and married the daughter of a family that ran a rival printing firm.

The decision stunned both families but eventually brought both together.

BTW dubai194\dass\deira, acknowledging the author\copyright of articles like the above is considered common courtesy around here.

 

[Jono]

STEVE Waugh last night lavished praise on the "king" who showed contempt for him and the game in one of cricket's greatest series.

In a timely gesture before Sourav Ganguly's 100th Test, beginning on Boxing Day, Waugh revealed his begrudging respect for the former Indian captain.

"You don't have to like or dislike him. You have to respect him," he said.

"That's probably the best accolade you can get in international cricket, is earning respect from your own teammates and opposition.

"There are certain things that rub people the wrong way, but that's just him."

The relationship between the two former captains was an intriguing sub-plot of the 2001 and 2003-04 series, the latter Waugh's last before retiring.

On the 2001 tour of India, Ganguly got under Australia's skin by failing to turn up on time for the toss on four occasions during the Test and one-day series, often leaving Waugh standing in the outfield with his blood boiling.

Tension also flared before a one-day game in Indore, India, when Ganguly claimed a victory at the toss.

He was overruled by West Indian match referee Cammie Smith, who declared the coin had landed in Waugh's favour.

When Ganguly reached his half-century in the final one-day game in Goa, he provocatively took a red rag out of his pocket, which seemed a taunt at Waugh's famous handkerchief.

"I think there were times when he pushed it a bit far with the toss," Waugh said.

"It wasn't only myself, the match referee warned him a number of times not to do it and he continued to do it.

"That was a lack of respect. But that was his choice, fair enough. That's dead and buried now.

"But . . . he certainly is a very good player and it's a credit to the way he has come back.

"Being dropped as a captain, in Australia that is a death sentence.

"But in India they give you a chance to get back in the side. He has fought hard to get back in there and he is probably batting as well as he has ever batted.

"That's great resilience, great resistance and that's a good example to the younger players."

Ganguly was controversially axed during Greg Chappell's reign as coach, the drama beginning early in 2005 on the tour of Zimbabwe, when the Australian great privately suggested his skipper concentrate solely on his flagging batting.

Ganguly threatened to leave mid-tour but backed down after some calming words from the team manager.

The spat, unsurprisingly, was quickly made public and bubbled along until he was sacked as skipper and replaced by Rahul Dravid in November, 2005.

Worse was to come for Ganguly when he was dropped from the team in January, 2006.

This sparked fiery street protests in Ganguly's home town of Kolkata and angry speeches in Indian Parliament.

Ganguly vowed to return and his determination didn't surprise those that know the son of a wealthy Kolkata printer.

Nicknamed the Maharaj (King), he lives in a family mansion and has been known to carry himself like royalty.

His perseverance to get what he wants was shown when, against his family's wishes, he secretly dated and married the daughter of a family that ran a rival printing firm.

The decision stunned both families but eventually brought both together.

"I think he has rubbed people up the wrong way," Waugh said.

"That's fine. He's the type of bloke you would want to have on your side. Every side has got those players."

Ganguly returned to the side for the home series against Sri Lanka in 2003 but in the hotbed of politics that is Indian cricket, he was reinstated as a "bowling all-rounder" despite having a bowling average of more than 50.

His reincarnation began to take shape on the 2006-07 tour of South Africa when he was the leading runscorer, and his strong form continued in England mid-year in a breakthrough series win.

The comeback was complete with back-to-back hundreds against Pakistan at home, including a 239 in Bangalore.

Ganguly's 144 at the Gabba four years ago is arguably still his greatest knock, and Waugh knows how desperate the left-hander, who averages a modest 32.46 against Australia, will be to prove himself this summer.

"When you see an Indian side with Ganguly in the line-up, you know it's game on," Waugh said.

Love Steve Waugh. Where is this from btw?

 

[deira]

oh just type ganguly and waugh in the google news section and you will find tons of articles on this, interview was done yesterday

 

[Matt79]

Wow - plenty of dire stuff in this thread from a few of the normal offenders who just like to slander people they don't know from the safety of their relatively anonymous forum accounts - in real life these people are called "cranks" and one downside of the Internet is that its released them from their natural habitat of AM talkback radio and writing letters to their Prime Minister/President/whatever.

Anyway back on topic:
I think there's a very very simple reason why Australians dislike Ganguly. It is his aristocratic manner and deportment. The tradition of disliking anyone who has tabs on themselves as being upper-class and who gives the faintest suggestion of thinking that they are better than us (in the sense of being superior by virtue of a 'better' lineage) is very very deeply ingrained. When Sourav has got into arguments with Waugh etc, all that has done has given some specific points for people to dislike to confirm their initial gut reaction that he was a up-himself toff who needed taking down a peg or two. BTW, in case some people are wondering, the fact that he's Indian has NOTHING to do with this attitude - the most common recipients of this kind of attitude are the English, or any Australians with the misfortune to have an English accent.

So to suggest that we dislike him because he sledges us, or because he doesn't take crap is to miss the point. If Flintoff got into a media slinging match with Ponting, or came out and labelled the Aussies as a disgrace and denigrated us in the press, we'd certainly be fired up to beat him, but unless he said something really out of line, we wouldn't hate him like people have hated Ganguly. Botham is another case in point - most people here love the bloke despite the fact he's rarely had much good to say about any Australians in public.

 

[Anil]

I think there's a very very simple reason why Australians dislike Ganguly. It is his aristocratic manner and deportment. The tradition of disliking anyone who has tabs on themselves as being upper-class and who gives the faintest suggestion of thinking that they are better than us (in the sense of being superior by virtue of a 'better' lineage) is very very deeply ingrained.

i obviously don't know whether he actually thinks that way, but am yet to see such an attitude translated into the cricket field or even in interviews or something like that...he can be brash, outspoken, in-your-face sometimes to the point of being obnoxious(waugh was pretty much the same and was revered in australia for it), but i have watched him on the field for several years now, haven't really noticed any "aristocratic manner and deportment"...what exactly are you alluding to when you say that?

 

[Jono]

Not that I disagree with your points regarding Ganguly, but I don't think Steve Waugh ever came close to being obnoxious. He was more seen as a stiff. Big difference IMO.

 

[Matt79]

That's what I'm saying, it's not fair and is in many ways a quite shallow and unfair way to judge people, but I honestly think its that simple. More than what he actually says/does, it is in my opinion his appearance and mannerisms, which are reminscisent to people here of an upper class Englishman.

 

[Anil]

Not that I disagree with your points regarding Ganguly, but I don't think Steve Waugh ever came close to being obnoxious. He was more seen as a stiff. Big difference IMO.

waugh was one of the biggest trash-talkers in the game, both on the field as well as off it(especially off it)...whether he crossed the limits of nicety or not should be left to the perspective of whoever was at the receiving end, right? some probably did not mind it that much, however there are opponents who have felt riled/intimidated/bullied by the guy's attitude....now the fact that ganguly took the verbal/attitude fight to him is one of the things that i admire about him...and the fact that waugh for once on the receiving end took it very badly and whined about it really diminished my respect for him...

That's what I'm saying, it's not fair and is in many ways a quite shallow and unfair way to judge people, but I honestly think its that simple. More than what he actually says/does, it is in my opinion his appearance and mannerisms, which are reminscisent to people here of an upper class Englishman.

that perception has not been supported by any actual exhibitions of snobbishness(unless you can point out something specific), if there is such a view point of ganguly, i believe it is a faulty one...anyway do you really think that accounts for 100% of the ganguly hate? i seriously doubt it....

 

[Matt79]

waugh was one of the biggest trash-talkers in the game, both on the field as well as off it(especially off it)...whether he crossed the limits of nicety or not should be left to the perspective of whoever was at the receiving end, right? some probably did not mind it that much, however there are opponents who have felt riled/intimidated/bullied by the guy's attitude....now the fact that ganguly took the verbal/attitude fight to him is one of the things that i admire about him...and the fact that waugh for once on the receiving end took it very badly and whined about it really diminished my respect for him...




that perception has not been supported by any actual exhibitions of snobbishness(unless you can point out something specific), if there is such a view point of ganguly, i believe it is a faulty one...anyway do you really think that accounts for 100% of the ganguly hate? i seriously doubt it....

Could well be a faulty perception, although I do think from what I have seen, that Ganguly has done just enough to keep people convinced that their initial gut reaction to him is correct. The feud with Chappell will have fed into that. As I said, it is just my opinion, but I do live in Australia and talk to lots of Aussies (including the ones who aren't serious enough to come on line and chat about) about cricket, so its an opinion I'm comfortable putting forward.

 

[honestbharani]

To be fair, I think I can see where Matt is coming from. I have tried to get close to talking to Sourav, Sachin and even Lara (in that one game he played in Chennai recently) and so many others but I found them very hard to approach. Contrast would be guys like Langer, Shane Warne, Kasper, some of the SL guys, Oram etc. May be it is about security and stuff, but generally I found most of the superstars of the game, rather unapproachable, exceptions being Warne himself and to a lesser extent, Murali. Obviously, it could juz be the security thing and these guys may be very nice guys otherwise, but juz a feeling I got.

Also, if you read up on Ganguly, there have been a number of instances mentioned by his old team mates in India, Flintoff himself and a few others about how he used conduct himself, mainly in his younger days, and maybe that is also a reason.

Having said that, it must be noted that he has conducted himself well most of the time when it comes to interviews and stuff and the so called "haughtiness" doesn't exactly show itself publically too many times. It is mostly perceived but with abt 5% of truth, IMHO. But again, even I am guessing as I have no idea on how Sourav used to conduct himself in the dressing room etc.

 

[Pratters]

To be fair, I think I can see where Matt is coming from. I have tried to get close to talking to Sourav, Sachin and even Lara (in that one game he played in Chennai recently) and so many others but I found them very hard to approach. Contrast would be guys like Langer, Shane Warne, Kasper, some of the SL guys, Oram etc. May be it is about security and stuff, but generally I found most of the superstars of the game, rather unapproachable, exceptions being Warne himself and to a lesser extent, Murali. Obviously, it could juz be the security thing and these guys may be very nice guys otherwise, but juz a feeling I got.

Tendulkar and Ganguly are two of the nicest guys - they always respond to fans. Obviously at times they require their personal space and maybe the time you approached them didn't coincide with the time they wanted to interact with fans.

I have followed the Indian team and met these 'stars' a fair few times and they always talk to, oblige autograph hunters whenever they can. Just notice Tendulkar off the field whenever you can, even in videos etc. He responds to fans whenever he can. The superstars are not unapproachable. However, one needs to know how and when to approach the players...

 

[alternative]

Ganguly is gun both on and off the field, easily approachable. On that note Tendulkar, i haven no freaking idea, don't care either .

 

[Pratters]

So to suggest that we dislike him because he sledges us, or because he doesn't take crap is to miss the point. If Flintoff got into a media slinging match with Ponting, or came out and labelled the Aussies as a disgrace and denigrated us in the press, we'd certainly be fired up to beat him, but unless he said something really out of line, we wouldn't hate him like people have hated Ganguly. Botham is another case in point - most people here love the bloke despite the fact he's rarely had much good to say about any Australians in public.

There is a strong feeling among a lot of people and not just me that the Australian cricket team can give it but can't take it. This is very much true in the last decade or so. Flintoff being liked doesn't contradict the point. Ashes 2005 was played with no quarter given and none asked for but it was played with a good feeling. Earlier, subcontinent teams used to take it but didn't used to give it back. Things are vastly different now. We saw in India's recent England tour how when they threw jelly beans at the Indians, Zaheer Khan didn't take it lying down. I am not for a moment condoning racism mind. The feeling regarding not being able to take is shared by a lot of people - I saw Tony Greig say the same on Channel Nine for instance.

 

[Anil]

Could well be a faulty perception, although I do think from what I have seen, that Ganguly has done just enough to keep people convinced that their initial gut reaction to him is correct. The feud with Chappell will have fed into that. As I said, it is just my opinion, but I do live in Australia and talk to lots of Aussies (including the ones who aren't serious enough to come on line and chat about) about cricket, so its an opinion I'm comfortable putting forward.

sorry, but this is what i cannot understand...when you say "just enough", it's kind of vague as to what he has done...and why do you think the aussies have an "initial gut reaction" of hate to him? i am not disputing that the aussies feel that way, from your explanation, it really isn't clear why...

 

[taitmachine]

I like Gangas. I find him very entertaining to watch.

I think the Steve Waugh run in & arrogance is why some do not like him much. Kevin Pieterson gets the same response from Aussies its a love hate thing. Being disliked by opposition is often a sign of respect though.

 

[pasag]

Haven't read anything in this thread yet but I've found his behaviour since his comeback to be superb and refreshing. He looks like he's completely relaxed and enjoying himself and his press conferences and interactions with the media always reflect this. Maybe it's a bit of Altoz's excessive cheerleading rubbing off on me, but he's probably one of my fav cricketers atm.

 

[Top_Cat]

Haven't read anything in this thread yet but I've found his behaviour since his comeback to be superb and refreshing. He looks like he's completely relaxed and enjoying himself and his press conferences and interactions with the media always reflect this. Maybe it's a bit of Altoz's excessive cheerleading rubbing off on me, but he's probably one of my fav cricketers atm.

Yep have to hand it to him, he's the comeback kid. Being dropped as captain probably would have ended the career of others. He's back, batting very well and looking comfortable with his role in the team.

 

[Sanz]

Haven't read anything in this thread yet but I've found his behaviour since his comeback to be superb and refreshing. He looks like he's completely relaxed and enjoying himself and his press conferences and interactions with the media always reflect this. Maybe it's a bit of Altoz's excessive cheerleading rubbing off on me, but he's probably one of my fav cricketers atm.

In my opinion majority of his behaviour issue has been created by media. I have followed Ganguly's career pretty closely both as captain and as a player alone and TBF I dont see much difference in his behaviour at all esp if you consider his time in the team as a player (i.e not as captain) alone. His behaviour between 1996-2000 was pretty good.

He has always been a favorite cricketer of mine and that is because of the passion he plays his cricket with. He is not flaw less but who is.