Wasim says ICC is run by whites

[SJS]

When will they ever learn...
when will they ever learn !

​

 

[C_C]

C C

Marxism, socialism, communism, whatever other -ism you care to name, have all been tried and failed. They look great on paper but fail for one simple reason - the involvement of humans and their associated personality traits.

Whether administered by a democracy or benevolent dictatorship, capitalism is the only system that has stood the test of time.

Obviously, It has its' faults but again these lie with those practicing its dark art.

As for the notion that capitalism will collapse - nonsense.

At the core of capitalism are transactions (not exploitation of the weak as you so colourfully put it). Unless one element of society becomes perfectly self-sufficient, transactions will continue ad infinitum as will capitalism.

Capitalism has stood the test of time ?
Well the entire world economy is getting more and more polarised - rich are getting richer, poor are getting poorer, the public systems are becomming pay as you go systems- so how exactly is it standing the test of time ?
Sure, with only a handful of countries profiting from capitalism and having brainwashed denizens ( a notable poster here for example) trumpeting their cause, i am sure it LOOKS like capitalism is the only thing that 'stands the test of time'.
But what you forgot to say is this : Capitalism has stood the test of time with only a few handful countries and a small fraction of the world's population benifitting from it at the expense of the overwhelming majority

And what you call transactions, i call exploitation. But that is largely academic - what is the bottomline is that capitalism works only with the availability of a cheap labour base- so that the production can be dirt cheap compared to the sales areas - which is why Americas, Japan, etc. hardly manufactures low end/medium end consumer goods ( ie, something thats not more than a few thousand bucks in price) and the production has shifted to third world nations like India, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.
But what capitalists dont see is that doing so generates capital in those nations and those nations eventually will not be viable sources to continue production and profit.
It will have to shift base to some other depraved nation to exploit its workforce at dirt-cheap price. But with a finite source of labour and the potential for cheap labour-force dwindling(as each of these developing nations become more and more developed), how is this a sustainable system ?
Explain that!
So you have two options - either discard it now before its too late or actively enforce the status quo. Obviously you cant expect business owners to understand this, because all they care about is profit.
And again, i fail to see why people are so fricking stubborn to justify their opinions or hold on to them when quite clearly exposed as flawed. If you think capitalism is self sustainable, explain why.

 

[C_C]

When will they ever learn...
when will they ever learn !

​

Are you some sort of a corporate lackey ? You seem to justify your opinions or debate it far too less - perhaps its the age. Older the person, the more stubborn the person.

 

[Scaly piscine]

C C

this discussion is hopeless. you just want to blame the west for everything.

100 lines of this to all those who argue with C_C.

 

[C_C]

100 lines of this to all those who argue with C_C.

Seems like lots of egos are *****ed here and a lots of people cant debate the objective truth.
Oh well.

 

[swede]

C C

You claim to deal in "facts and facts alone"

then you claim "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer."

This is a fact that is categorically wrong.
Its an absolutely crucial fact for considering the state of the world and you get it completly wrong.

You challenge me to whether I know the exact definitions of various -isms, and while I am sure you know more about those than I do, I consider it frightening that you are so out of touch with the actual facts of the world.

It seems people and the world around you cant quite conform to your theories.

There are an awful lot less poor in the world than there were 10 years ago, or 20 or whatever. The reason is unquestionably trade and all that it brings with it.

The least thing these people need is theoretical ideas brought upon them by intellectual who know so much but are at the same time unaware of the most basic facts.

Please understans these facts.

POVERTY IS IN STEEP DECLINE.

THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN FEWER WARS IN WORLD HISTORY

THE CHANCE OF DYING IN A WAR HAS NEVER BEEN SMALLER

 

[C_C]

C C

You claim to deal in "facts and facts alone"

then you claim "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer."

This is a fact that is categorically wrong.
Its an absolutely crucial fact for considering the state of the world and you get it completly wrong.

No. *YOU* are wrong. Not me. Now read this.
This is an IRS report.

There are an awful lot less poor in the world than there were 10 years ago, or 20 or whatever. The reason is unquestionably trade and all that it brings with it.

False. Poor or rich is relative. If rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, as it is clearly demonstrated by IRS facts, there are more poor people today than before - a fact that need not be confirmed by IRS statistics- just talk to old people and compare the standards of living between today and 50 years ago.
The living conditions in developed world is deteriorating. Why ? because they are at the saturation point with respect to capitalism. They either keep getting poorer or they actively enforce the status quo( which is what the developed world seems to be doing moderately).
The developing nations are getting richer because they are in the 'highest gain' phase of capitalism- which they are doing by exploiting their own populace or the populace of lesser developed nations through disproportionate distribution of resources. Either which way, capitalism's doom is unavoidable, unless there is major technological breakthrough to take this parasitic and wasteful way of life into other planets and exploit the natural resources of those planets.

The least thing these people need is theoretical ideas brought upon them by intellectual who know so much but are at the same time unaware of the most basic facts.

No, what they need is facts and solid theories, not media brainwashing.

POVERTY IS IN STEEP DECLINE.

It isnt.

THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN FEWER WARS IN WORLD HISTORY

More have died in the last century due to warfare than the last 1000 years combined.

THE CHANCE OF DYING IN A WAR HAS NEVER BEEN SMALLER

For the developed nations, not for the underdeveloped nations. And chance of dying in a war is irrelevant - war is wrong in the first place, so i dont give two hoots if chances of dying is lessening.

 

[swede]

C C


staggering that you admit you dont care how many are actually killed in wars, just because wars are "wrong"
That says a lot about your brutally theoretical approach to the world.

I, however, dont care about which "phase" capitalism is in.
Its just theories.

And still,

there have never been fewer wars in history and
the chance of dying in a war has never been smaller

this is fact and it includes the entire world.

And poverty is also in steep decline.
This shouldnt be looked at relatively. the rich are getting richer, perhaps even quicker than the poor, but the poor are also getting richer and they are at a level where it really matters.

 

[C_C]

C C


staggering that you admit you dont care how many are actually killed in wars, just because wars are "wrong"
That says a lot about your brutally theoretical approach to the world.

I, however, dont care about which "phase" capitalism is in.
Its just theories.

And still,

there have never been fewer wars in history and
the chance of dying in a war has never been smaller

this is fact and it includes the entire world.

And poverty is also in steep decline.
This shouldnt be looked at relatively. the rich are getting richer, perhaps even quicker than the poor, but the poor are also getting richer and they are at a level where it really matters.

Look.
One of my best buddies is a vietnam vet. I know 4 other guys who've served in one war or another. Including the last gulf war. And guess what ? There were human rights abuses, rampantly might i add, even by the so-called 'good guys'.
You are trying to make wars safer ? what the hell is that ?
War itself is insanity in first place. And you are trying to put sanity into insanity ?!?
It is a testament to humanity's barbarity that almost every single invention from time immemorial has been incorporated into warfare and killing before it found any benevolent purpose. The motto of humanity is : " Hey look- i invented this amazing device. Now lets see if we can kill more people with it than before". I dont care about making warfare safer-simply because it legitimises warfare. I care about eliminating warfare.

You keep talking about stuff like i did 4-5 years ago before i took it upon myself to educate myself from a neutral perspective.

Despite understandings of various nobel lauriates in economics, reports from the IRS and simple logic, you keep toting the media line of 'capitalism works and capitalists are the good guys' claptrap.
Simply because you think that a theory, nomatter how straightforward, is irrelevant and dubious if it isnt practically tested.
Well in that case, you wouldnt mind stuffing a C4 block up your rear end and sit on a canister of gasoline and then start heating the gasoline, would you ?
Remember - i am pretty sure that such an action has never been tested and even though the outcome is elementary and straightforward, it is still theory, correct ?
So you wanna volunteer ?

As per poverty being in steep decline, which planet do you live on ? There are more hungry , shelterless and dying people today than at any point in human history. Even in several nations where population growth hasnt been a big factor.

Capitalism is about disproportionate and wasteful allocation of resources - there is no denying that. And the logical extension of that is eventually, the poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer.
Your name is Swede and if you are really posting from Sweden, i dont expect you to understand this. Simply because, when it comes to sustainable economic modelling with a compassionate eye, Scandinavia is at the forefront today. It is pretty hard for Norweigians, Swedes, Danish, etc. to understand what i am on about because their economies are remarkably stable and based on common sense and group perspective than any other nation's. And ironically,( that is, if you really are Swedish), you are advocating capitalism while sitting in one of the most socialist of all democratic countries on this planet.
If the rest of the world approached economic planning as Sweden or Norway, it would go a long long way to help humanity. But unfortunately, it doesnt work that way for the rest of the world and financial behemoths like America, India, etc. ( in terms of gross financial wealth) are far far worse.

The poor cannot get richer from a global perspective as long as capitalism is in place. Simply because, the fundamental driving force of capitalism is to produce goods at a far cheaper price than what they are sold at. This automatically implies that the production centers have to be significantly behind financially than the sales centers. And it is NOT sustainable, partly owing to population growth and partly owing to the flawed and shortsighted economic model called capitalism.
I dont believe in communism or absolute equal distribution of funds but the mean deviation is way way too much to make any sort of logical or compassionate sense. Its understandable if someone is 10x richer than the average because of his/her brilliance. It is NOT understandable if someone is 10000x richer than the average, simply because that is far too skewered and disproportionate distribution of resources. And no, no one is entitled to 'earn' as much as he/she can given that there are zillions of starving poor people on this planet. You should NOT be entitled to a 10 bedroom palace in midst of a sea of ramshackle huts.

 

[swede]

C C

I live in Denmark. We are not a socialist country. I consider france and germany more socialist countries in the way they have regulated economies.
Denmark have an economy along the lines of Britain and the US. free markets, hire and fire etc, with one crucial difference. high taxation and massive redistribution.

I dont know, or care, what defines socialism, Denmark is a collosal success, if thats socialism because of redistribution fine, but its based on free educated skilled people interacting and trading all over the world. This is what I consider a free-market economy and its what the west have though different everywhere.
As with socialism, I dont care whether this is capitalism according to theories..

It works. and it has been developed by the boss of the danish economy which is the collective will of its people.

Of course it matters how many people are killed in wars. Are you seriously saying it doesnt. The main reason its lower than ever is not because of technologies, but simply because there are fewer wars than ever before.Look around. there are actually few wars. fewer than ever. In a world of trade, war becomes ever more pointless.

And yes there are fewer poor people in the world than ever.
This is a simple fact, which I find amazing that you cannot accept.
I dont know if can be bothered to look for sources, later perhaps, it should be easily available UN figures or whatever, but I find it astonishing you dont accept this.

I find it strange that you dont, or perhaps I missed it, dont attack the west on agricultural subsidies. This is where the west, essentially France, are cruel. closing markets etc, delaying the eradication of poverty.

EDIT: ok I googled it, and the first thing I found was a 2004 world bank report.

Lots of numbers, but reading only the first paragraph;
the percentage of the world population living in extreme poverty (1$/day) has dropped from 40% to 21% between 1981 and 2001.

a staggering decline and yes there is a similar drop in the number of wars, though I am not going to look for it as its pointless to continue this as you just dont want to know facts.

 

[C_C]

I live in Denmark. We are not a socialist country. I consider france and germany more socialist countries in the way they have regulated economies.
Denmark have an economy along the lines of Britain and the US. free markets, hire and fire etc, with one crucial difference. high taxation and massive redistribution.

I dont know, or care, what defines socialism, Denmark is a collosal success, if thats socialism because of redistribution fine, but its based on free educated skilled people interacting and trading all over the world. This is what I consider a free-market economy and its what the west have though different everywhere.
As with socialism, I dont care whether this is capitalism according to theories..

The very least you could is stop wasting my and your time. If you dont even know the basic definitions of socialism, capitalism and other forms of economy, maybe you shouldnt get into an argument about the pros and cons of an economic system.
In other words, if you dont even know the definition of electromagnetism, try not to debate about the applications of electromagnetism and its pros and cons.

 

[swede]

C C


So only people up to your standards are allowed to debate the economy??

Economy is about people. theories are just an aid, no succesful economy is constructed on a theory by experts who know best. Theories are made, converted into ideas, modified, debated and in the end approved or dismissed by the population at large.

Where economies are run according to -isms or theories by arrogant experts, people usually die in large numbers as they are to stupid to conform to the experts theories.

democracies are not controlled by self-appointed experts who believe they know best.
I trust my extremly succesfull country will not recall my right to vote based on stupidity.


you may know definitions and theories etc but apparently know nothing about the world around you. a scary combination.

As I edited into my post above. there has been a massive poverty drop in the last 25 years, but you just dont want to know.

you can google 5,000 sources in 2 seconds that will tell you that the number of people living in poverty has dropped by billions, yet you believe otherwise and its frankly ridiculous, especially when you at the same time consider yourself so very superior.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Please understans these facts.

POVERTY IS IN STEEP DECLINE.

THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN FEWER WARS IN WORLD HISTORY

THE CHANCE OF DYING IN A WAR HAS NEVER BEEN SMALLER

I'm not particularly interested in getting into this ridiculously off-topic debate (in fact, I might suggest one of you makes an Off Topic thread for it), but you certainly have an interesting definition of "fact" there swede, as all three of those things are categorically untrue.

 

[SJS]

I'm not particularly interested in getting into this ridiculously off-topic debate (in fact, I might suggest one of you makes an Off Topic thread for it),

Some people specialise in dragging every debate off topic.

I think it might be better to have another forum called "for those who cant stick to topic" and have these special people as the honourable members 'by appointment only'

Of course, anything they want to post on any other forum should automatically get diverted to this , their very own, exalted space !!

*pats himself on the back for another brainwave*

 

[swede]

I'm not particularly interested in getting into this ridiculously off-topic debate (in fact, I might suggest one of you makes an Off Topic thread for it), but you certainly have an interesting definition of "fact" there swede, as all three of those things are categorically untrue.

you are right about the ridiculous debate.

You are however wrong about the rest.

Regarding world poverty, I can just repeat from above, source,world bank report 2004, world poverty dropped from 40% to 21% from 1981- 2001.

the rest is also true, I dont know why there are such strong negative myths about the world

 

[C_C]

I apologise for taking this thread so far off topic.

 

[SJS]

you are right about the ridiculous debate.

You are however wrong about the rest.

Regarding world poverty, I can just repeat from above, source,world bank report 2004, world poverty dropped from 40% to 21% from 1981- 2001.

the rest is also true, I dont know why there are such strong negative myths about the world

I agree with most of what you say here and before Swede.

There are major problems in the world today but living in the past and glorifying it is intellectual dishonesty. This has long been the bane of communists and their ilk which is tragic really since lost in their diatribe are a lot of sensible things that they do say from time to time. That is why a reading of any of their classics converts most at the first reading.

But they care more for the rhetoric and the slogans and are so lost in it that these sensible issues which need them are also treated with contempt by others.

It is impossible for the rest of the thinking world to argue rationally with the jhola wallahs (as the socialist types are called in India) and this breeds mutual antagonism that sad since some of these debates are vital for the world.

The 'jhola walla', who is generally articulate and well read treats this as his certifcate for preaching to the rest of the world and the others find his attempts laughable and pathetic and increasingly irrelevant.

The truth lies somewhere in between but the jhola wallah wont stop being in love with his erudition and the other side will refuse to accept him and his words due to the complete lack of ground realities to support the arguments being put forth.

Of course, there are those who are mightily impressed with the impressive words of the jhola walla and his knowledge of such a wide variety of subjects. Why not ? It is impressive. But knowledge, which is acquired and not to be equated with intellect, is no substitute for clarity of thought and objectivity.

Most of the stuff talked about here is too BIG for someone with my very limited knowledge of anything, my low intellect and lack of wisdom to apprehend hence I would not be surprised if my words dont make any sense to others as well.

No problems whatsoever.

 

[JASON]

I think Wasim is right.

ICC is run by Whites who pass Brown sh*t !!

It should be the other way !!

It should be run by Browns who pass White sh*t !!

 

[C_C]

There are major problems in the world today but living in the past and glorifying it is intellectual dishonesty. This has long been the bane of communists and their ilk which is tragic really since lost in their diatribe are a lot of sensible things that they do say from time to time. That is why a reading of any of their classics converts most at the first reading.

Dont talk about ***** you dont understand. Makes you kinda look stupid.
There is a big difference between communists, socialists, social democrats, maoists, lenninst, etc. And for your information, the economies that are working the best right now are scandinavian ones because they are social democracies.
But then again, you are an entreprenuer and i can see your self interest in continuing to spread the message of capitalism and keep fleecing the human species.
And if you think what i say lacks ground realities and denegrate my viewpoint as 'jhola wallas', you might wanna read into Dr. Amartya Sen's research- he is a nobel lauriate in economics. I can quote you several other names.
And another thing you can look up in your hindi dictionary - ' chamcha/ chamchagiri'
That applies perfectly to you.

And its a hoot that you talk about objectivity and clarity of thought, when you have no effing clue about the simple stuff yet go on arguing about stuff you have no grasp on ( such as what is chucking and what is not).

Thanks to people like you, the gap between the middle class and the have nots in India and rest of the world are rising.
But disinformation, bland lust for money and power is what you guys crave for- so i guess it suits your perspective.

PS: Swede's facts were categorically wrong in many counts and it is easily provable. But how a near-retirement dude manages to spew such garbage is beyond me- the older you get the wiser you are supposed to get, not the other way round.

Most of the stuff talked about here is too BIG for someone with my very limited knowledge of anything, my low intellect and lack of wisdom to apprehend hence I would not be surprised if my words dont make any sense to others as well.

It seems to be too BIG for you and too much for your intellect. So instead of trying to feign humility and yet taking pot shots, it would be a whole lot more honest to just shut up and learn about stuff you dont know- or come in with credible arguments to debate the viewpoint, instead of potshots. Would've thought that a guy old enough to be my grandfather would have enough wisdom not to talk about stuff he doesnt know and then feign humility but i guess i was wrong. Afterall, we do have nefarious creatures like Lalloo Prasad Yadav and he is probably old enough to be my grandfather too !

 

[Scaly piscine]

*Slinks away before James gets here*