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Wasim Akram Vs Kallis

Wasim Vs Kallis

  • Total voters
    37
  • This poll will close: .
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Fun peer rating fact: Who does Ponting think is the most talented cricketer he’s seen and also the most underrated cricketer of all time?
 
T

Thala_0710

State 12th Man
Coronis said:
Fun peer rating fact: Who does Ponting think is the most talented cricketer he’s seen and also the most underrated cricketer of all time?
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I do know that Langer called Martyn the most talented cricketer of his time (alongside Sachin and Lara), so maybe him?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Would you give Wasim credit for tougher home tests?


That's is just disingenuous when you know that peers of his era, post-career, edge Wasim ahead of those two.


MoM is a pretty lousy way of determining this, but even then Wasim has 17 in 104 matches, Kallis 23 in 166, with more of the latter in Zimbabwe/Bangladesh games. So Wasim is more impressive even by that account. But in terms of memorable career highlights and standout performances, Kallis has little to show.


Except Tendulkar debuted 6 years before Kallis and averaged nearly 60 in the 90s.


Boohoo. Stop complaining about this.


I think CW doesn't have as many issues with Kallis in team 2. But I think if Sobers was not there, Kallis would have more competition in an ATG first XI with folks like Hammond as posters wouldnt want to water down the middle order for the sake of some rest overs.

Kallis next to guys like Bradman and Tendulkar is an odd fit and few would sacrifice top tier batting quality while some may even opt for Miller. So Kallis ain't a lock.


Funnily enough you said you rate Marshall and Warned batting abilities as more than sufficient for you. So if Wasim is better than them, then that definitely means you can't dismiss his runs.

Kallis is top 3 on this board by virtue of his batting skills compared to other more rounded ARs, not his bowling skills when he doesn't even average 2 wickets a game.


You're in the minority and have failed to provide any convincing argument for this. In fact, you embarassed yourself by trying to convert runs into slip catches and had to walk that back.
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No, and you know why. And not going down that road again.

Ambrose also had a high peer rating, and McGrath, well he was Kallis, not as exciting and as such I never thought he was views as great as he should have been. Some, many saw him as second fiddle to Warne, which he never was.

You said one wasn't an impactful player, that amount of MOM awards says different. Kallis had stand out performances, you just choose to downgrade them.

Never said he was quite. Sachin, but they were ridiculously close as far as eras go, and ended up with the similar averages

Pointing out an obvious fact isn't complaining.

Watering down the middle order, gotcha.
So I rate Immy 8th, and Jaques 14th, that's about equal factoring in that there are more batsmen than bowlers, so I assume that's also watering down, or not quite? And yeah, the only remotely close competition to Kallis is Hammond, and there's no lack of posters here who would have blasted from the mountain tops that Wally wasn't an all rounder.

Kallis next to Tendulkar isn't an add fit and to to keep repeating it doesn't make it so. And no one is opting for Miller. He's pretty damn close to a lock.

Where did I say I dismissed his runs?

But he is a batting all rounder, so is Sobers, Imran and Hadlee, bowling all-rounders.

1. I don't care if I'm in the minority, that's never bothered me, nor do I, like you, need everyone to agree with me.
2. You're the one that set up multiple stupid threads about adjusting figures for various factors, including slip fielding if I'm not incorrect. So stop projecting.

Anyone who's ever watched a cricket match understands the value that a great cordon can bring, if you need stats to verify it, that's on you. And yes, I rate the cordon as a whole as more important than reserve bowlers and lower order batting, you don't have to agree.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
No, and you know why. And not going down that road again.
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Ah yes, some records are more important than others. If Kallis succeeded he gets credit, not so for Akram

kyear2 said:
Ambrose also had a high peer rating, and McGrath, well he was Kallis, not as exciting and as such I never thought he was views as great as he should have been. Some, many saw him as second fiddle to Warne, which he never was.
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McGrath by consensus was the best pace bowler of the 2000s. It's ridiculous to say he suffers in peer rating. But yeah Wasims peer rating is slightly higher than both him and Ambrose.

kyear2 said:
You said one wasn't an impactful player, that amount of MOM awards says different. Kallis had stand out performances, you just choose to downgrade them.
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You brought up MOM so pls concede Wasim is more impactful by that score as I have shown you.

What are Kallis' stand out performances and are you going to pretend they remotely compare to those of other actual ATGs?

kyear2 said:
Never said he was quite. Sachin, but they were ridiculously close as far as eras go, and ended up with the similar averages
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Yeah but Tendulkar had worldclass figures before the flat era started, Kallis didn't.

kyear2 said:
Pointing out an obvious fact isn't complaining.
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It's weak. We all have biases and strong opinions but you don't have to moan about it.

kyear2 said:
Watering down the middle order, gotcha.
So I rate Immy 8th, and Jaques 14th, that's about equal factoring in that there are more batsmen than bowlers, so I assume that's also watering down, or not quite?
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It isn't because most of us rate Imran higher as a pace bowler, plus offers the reverse swing, so there isn't a sense of watering down, even higher than you do Kallis as a bat. And Imran is better in secondary skills too. Which is why Imran shows up in more ATG XIs while Kallis will never because he isn't seen as great enough a bat to justify himself or compelling as an AR package.

kyear2 said:
And yeah, the only remotely close competition to Kallis is Hammond, and there's no lack of posters here who would have blasted from the mountain tops that Wally wasn't an all rounder.

Kallis next to Tendulkar isn't an add fit and to to keep repeating it doesn't make it so. And no one is opting for Miller. He's pretty damn close to a lock.
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You yourself would consider Hammond since he has a damn good case as a bat and we would find his bowling sufficient. The rest of the middle order are best bats of their eras and Kallis wasn't one. So please take back your statement that Kallis is a lock if Sobers isn't there.

kyear2 said:
Where did I say I dismissed his runs?
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You haven't engaged in a meaningful comparison of Wasims batting and Kallis
bowling.

kyear2 said:
But he is a batting all rounder, so is Sobers, Imran and Hadlee, bowling all-rounders.
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Yeah but Kallis batting prowess hides that he wasn't that valuable a bowler as you are making out. Making the difference between his bowling and Wasims batting some vast gulf where in the grand scheme it doesn't make a huge difference.

kyear2 said:
1. I don't care if I'm in the minority, that's never bothered me, nor do I, like you, need everyone to agree with me.
2. You're the one that set up multiple stupid threads about adjusting figures for various factors, including slip fielding if I'm not incorrect. So stop projecting.
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You are in the minority on this board and in general cricket fraternity for a reason.

kyear2 said:
Anyone who's ever watched a cricket match understands the value that a great cordon can bring, if you need stats to verify it, that's on you. And yes, I rate the cordon as a whole as more important than reserve bowlers and lower order batting, you don't have to agree.
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If slips are that valuable then surely Wasim should be rated McGrath level given his slip cordon.

Oops sorry your logic can't complete that circle.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Anyone who actually saw Akram bowl would know he is amongst a handful of bowlers that qualify to be the GOAT. To definitely say any one bowler is better than him is pointless pedantry. The same could apply to Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose etc
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

U19 Debutant
capt_Luffy said:
I rate Lindwall quite highly, but behind them. As overall cricketers, I will go:

Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
McGrath
Akram
Steyn
Ambrose

Donald
Lindwall
Pollock
Davidson
Lillee
Garner
Holding
Trueman
Younis
Cummins

Walsh
Roberts
Anderson
Bumrah
Rabada
Bedser
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Allan Donald is in that Tier 1. His record is as good as McGrath, Ambrose and statistically he is better than Steyn.
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

U19 Debutant
Allan Donald’s record in the subcontinent is extraordinary.

9 matches. 36 wickets. Avg of 20.3 and SR of 48
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

U19 Debutant
Statistically speaking, Donald’s record is better than that of Steyn.

Steyn played against 9 opponents. He has an average of more than 25 against 3 of them.
- 27.5 vs SL
-27.8 vs Aus
-31.6 vs Eng

Donald played against 8 opponents. He has an average of more than 23 against only 1 country.
- 31.08 vs Aus

Steyn played in 11 countries. He averages 25 or more in 5 countries.
-26.5 in NZ (4 Tests)
-28.7 in Aus (7 Tests)
-30.3 in SL (6 Tests)
-31.6 in Eng (5 Tests)
- 32.7 in UAE (4 Tests)

Donald played in 9 countries. He averages 25 or more in 2 countries.
- 28.4 in Aus (7 Tests)
- 32.2 in Pak (2 Tests)
 
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