wasim akram vs glenn mcgrath

[Hodgo7]

PS :- Subcontinent isn't just one country, there are four countries that play cricket there - India,Pakistan, SriLanka and Bangladesh.

Thanks for the tip Sherlock. Considering I've been travelling the world for nearly 4 years I appreciate it

 

[Sanz]

Was that poll also done 2 years ago ? Things might change mate but you are an example of one of the dribblers around here.

I have already said, that My opinion on Mcgrath has definately changed since then and If the poll was taken today, I dont know who I would have picked.

Lastly I didn't bring up that thread. It was Swerwy who did that and (this was probably the 2nd or 3rd time he has done that). I replied to him only because he claimed that he got "a good bashing when I said that McGrath was the more successful bowler out of the two", which isn't true.

So please take your accusations elsewhere.

 

[Sanz]

Yes Sanz Pollock, Klusener etc aren't tail enders but they usually bat at one position. Are they more important than batters 1-6 ?

Wonder why you left out Gilly. Is Gilchrist's wicket less important than any wicket between 1-6 ?

As for Pollock's wicket being more important, well it depends on the situation of the match. But why should it matter ? Does it get any easier to get a batsman out if he batted @ no. 7 ?

 

[Hodgo7]

actually, I am Australian

Geez mate you ruined my plan....bloody Aussies and your one-eyed view of everything

To think that an Australian would have a better bowler than someone from the sub-continent (including the whole 4 countries that it is made up of - learn something new everyday, thanks Sanz).

I suppose Murali won the Warne v Murali debate and Dravid won the Dravid v Ponting debate...

 

[Hodgo7]

Wonder why you left out Gilly. Is Gilchrist's wicket less important than any wicket between 1-6 ?

As for Pollock's wicket being more important, well it depends on the situation of the match. But why should it matter ? Does it get any easier to get a batsman out if he batted @ no. 7 ?

Mate I used the abbreviation ETC. I'm sure being the intellectual genius you are would have figured that out. I didn't see the need to type out every batter you mentioned.

Of course it depends but at the start of the match do you think the bowlers are going to be gunning for Pollock/Klusener etc ? When was the last time you saw a bowler come out and say they are going to target the number 7 in a side ? Please...

 

[Sanz]

When was the last time you saw a bowler come out and say they are going to target the number 7 in a side ? Please...

When was the last time you heard that bowlers were targetting batsmen by their batting positions ? Atleast I have never heard that, all I hear is that Mcgrath(or any other bowler) was/is targetting a Dravid or Tendulkar or a BLC (or the best batsmen) regardless of their batting positions.

 

[Hodgo7]

When was the last time you heard that bowlers were targetting batsmen by their batting positions ? Atleast I have never heard that, all I hear is that Mcgrath(or any other bowler) was/is targetting a Dravid or Tendulkar or a BLC (or the best batsmen) regardless of their batting positions.

I didn't mean exactly that position but a person who bats in that position.

I have checked to see the amount of times the bowlers have dismissed a No. 7 batsmen. McGrath has done so on 42 occasions which equates to 7.75% and Wasim has done so on 36 occasions which equates to 8.70%. Even if you add those into the mix McGrath is still clearly ahead...

Batters 1-7 (for you Sanz)

McGrath 75.09% of victims
Akram 64.98% of victims

Still pretty clear mate......

 

[Sanz]

Thanks for letting me know, but I said that 3 years ago and it doesn't prove anything.

 

[FRAZ]

Here are some stats to help..

In regards to batters from 1-6 Wasim's = 56.28% of his victims. McGrath's = 67.34%

In regards to batters 7-11 Wasim's = 43.72%. McGraths 32.66%

Thats a fair size difference which suggests that McGrath is a lot better knocking off the top order. In regards to the wicket distribution its dead even.

Wasims 1st innings accounted for 58.5% of his victims with McGraths (as of today) came in at 58.5% as well.

I'd have McGrath over Wasim if I had to choose one, but if I was choosing my All-time team I would have both.

This may also suggest that in the crunch situations or the close encounters Mcgrath wasn't even good enough to bowl and Wasim knocked off the trouble making tail-enders quickly . I want a person with good finioshing touches please.Your stats are mis-leading you please.

 

[FRAZ]

Seem to forget that he also had another all-time great bowler in Warne at the other end taking bagfuls of wickets which would take away opportunities for McGrath.

Johney I was saying that check the records of the opening partener of Wasim Akram i.e . Waqar who played with Wasim for most of his career and took a big chunk of the opening wickets . And Waqar most of the times opened the bowling with Wasim . I am not tryong to de-grade the legend Mcgrath or Warne like a school kid , my inquiry was simple . Thats it . And you mean Shane Warne looked extremely handsome while opening the bowling with Mcgrath .Right?

 

[Fusion]

In the very near future, Inzi will have better stats than Viv Richards in most categories. He will have more runs, better average(based on current comparison), more centuries, more fifties, and a better high score. And he will do it in fewer games. Yet I highly doubt that many would claim that Inzi is a better batsman than the great Viv.
When comparing two all time greats, stats aren't EVERYTHING. I have seen both Wasim and McGrath play, and I prefer Wasim. Even with McGrath's better stats. It is a personal preference, and certainly one that could be legitimately debated. However, I don't believe stats tell the whole story. Wasim doesn't have the overall accomplishments of McGrath stat-wise, but if I HAD to pick between the two, I would still go with Wasim. At his majestic peak, I only rank Marshal and Lilee above him (two other players whose stats don't reflect how good they actually were).
And as for those claiming that Wasim was favored in the poll a few years ago due to subcontinent bias, please don't resort to cheap insults. Just because a player from the subcontinent is prefered, doesn't mean it's because of bias. That is a very stupid and lazy logic to use.

 

[social]

Fusion makes very good points.

I too saw Wasim play and he was truly a fantastic bowler.

Left handed - IMO the best ever

Express when he wanted to be

Swung both the new and old ball both ways with minimal change in action

Only weakness was a chronic no-ball problem (but when u take as many wickets as he did - who cares anyway?)

If anything, the stats (as good as they are) don't do him justice.

At his best, you'll never see high quality batsmen look as bad against anyone as they did against Wasim.

That spell in the WC final still ranks as one of my all-time cricketing highlights.

Forced to choose between the two, I'd probably go for McGrath on the grounds of economy when the going got really rough but IMO it's a toss of the coin decision.

 

[FRAZ]

And as for those claiming that Wasim was favored in the poll a few years ago due to subcontinent bias, please don't resort to cheap insults. Just because a player from the subcontinent is prefered, doesn't mean it's because of bias. That is a very stupid and lazy logic to use.

You know what this is just bull... Because most of the sub-continant bias is against Pakistan too,Remember that !! And having Sub-continant bias aginst Pakistan , still Wasim did good job . And please and please . Dont take me to the bias issue ..

 

[FRAZ]

From 1984 to 1993 , Pakistan did not play many tests and actually they played many tests on the stupid and flat wickets .COnsidering that fact, Wasim becomes an automatic great . Mcgrath is my favorite but the stats and stupid graphs are being presented are just useless and not in the context of the thread .

 

[silentstriker]

From 1984 to 1993 , Pakistan did not play many tests and actually they played many tests on the stupid and flat wickets .COnsidering that fact, Wasim becomes an automatic great .

Not a single person in this thread is saying that Wasim was not a great bowler. Just thought I'd clarify. What some of us are saying, is that as great as Wasim was, McGrath was better. Thats is not a knock against Wasim. McGrath is better than Lillee, Ambrose, Marshall and everyone else too....that does not diminish Ambrose, Marshall and Lillee.

 

[FRAZ]

I remember when in 1994 Australia visited Pakistan then Pakistan did beat them in the test series and I rememeber that the record of Pakistan was actually kinda better than Australia at that point . (ODI and test win loss ratio) .
I consider Glen Mcgrath great because he along with a few others took the medium good Australian team to a new height and in my all time favorite list Mcgrath is top and this is the only reason . Mcgrath took the Aussies to a new level . A fairy tailish height. But Considering the situations in Pakistan and the flat wickets and all that ,Wasim is not that far behind and may be on a player to player value basis I may pick Wasim as being a much much better batsman (he never delivered to his original potential) . I as a Pakistani fan know that wnenever Wasim had the ball in his hands we always had an idea that he is not going to let his fans down . I am a big fan of Dravid and Dravid is like the most dangerous batsman to have in the team but I never saw gentleman playing against Wasim with ease.
And I admire Wasim for working as an academy for the youngsters and passing on the knowledge to them . He was good for the team overall .

 

[Anil]

Not a single person in this thread is saying that Wasim was not a great bowler. Just thought I'd clarify. What some of us are saying, is that as great as Wasim was, McGrath was better. Thats is not a knock against Wasim. McGrath is better than Lillee, Ambrose, Marshall and everyone else too....that does not diminish Ambrose, Marshall and Lillee.

in your opinion my friend, in your opinion....

 

[Sanz]

Seem to forget that he also had another all-time great bowler in Warne at the other end taking bagfuls of wickets which would take away opportunities for McGrath.

And Ofcourse Imran and Waqar weren't all time greats. Then there was Saqlain who at his peak was as good as any one I have watched and then there was Shoaib.

 

[Sanz]

Not a single person in this thread is saying that Wasim was not a great bowler. Just thought I'd clarify. What some of us are saying, is that as great as Wasim was, McGrath was better. Thats is not a knock against Wasim. McGrath is better than Lillee, Ambrose, Marshall and everyone else too....that does not diminish Ambrose, Marshall and Lillee.

It is a knock against Wasim when you qualify those posts with statements like "he was great at knocking tails, give me Mcgrath to get the top any day" or bring up ball tampering etc.

 

[silentstriker]

in your opinion my friend, in your opinion....

Well no duh. But because its my opinion that McGrath is better, that does not diminish Wasim.