Viv Richards vs Sunil Gavaskar

[kyear2]

Sachin > Ponting

But the difference is not that big

TBH the difference between Top 2-15 will not be that big

I rate Punter higher than most. It's not close between him and Sachin. It's just not.

 

[kyear2]

Any reasons why you think Kallis is “far” behind Ponting?

Don’t say boring

I must say I don't think these two are far apart, but...

You watch them, and it's not about being boring. It's about being able to put the opponent on the back foot, change the game plan / rotation and to set up the game, if not turn it on its head in a session.

It's about being able to get the bowlers to change their lines and even fields and putting them on the defensive.

And it's objectively harder to do that than it is to remain in your bubble and score at your own rate. The bailey to dominate is priceless, more difficult, and more impactful.

Not about aesthetics.

 

[kyear2]

Or Lara?

And you've gone too far.

No, Kallis isn't close Lara.

Are you just looking at averages?

 

[peterhrt]

Didn't Imran as well?

Yes. Imran said that of all the cricketers he had played with or against "Richards stands head and shoulders above everyone else."

Several of those who thought Richards was the best batsman of their experience also considered Gavaskar the best opener.

 

[kyear2]

Yes. Imran said that of all the cricketers he had played with or against "Richards stands head and shoulders above everyone else."

Several of those who thought Richards was the best batsman of their experience also considered Gavaskar the best opener.

The head and shoulders above thing though, comes up more for Richards though, than for anyone bar probably Hobbs and Bradman.

Re the Gavaskar point, yes several did,.I have no doubt. Several more also thought Barry was, so there's that. They were the two greatest openers of the 70's, Greenidge being easily behind those two.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Imran, Lillee, Akram, Thommo, Botham, Willis, Holding all considered Richard the undisputed supreme and waxed lyrical to great extents about him(Lillee called him the Supreme player, Botham and Willis were unwilling to believe that Bradman was better than Viv, Holding considers Viv even better than Lara and Sachin, same for Imran, Akram also rated him the best etc)

 

[subshakerz]

Any reasons why you think Kallis is “far” behind Ponting?

Don’t say boring

Couldn't dominate bowlers.

 

[Slifer]

Why is Smith arguable? He is clearly the best bat of his era without competition without any major flaw in his record.

To me I put him in the first tier. Strange how CW has soured on him.

Wait wait wait just a minute. Since when did you rate Smith that highly?? Is this even Subz??

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wait wait wait just a minute. Since when did you rate Smith that highly?? Is this even Subz??

IIRC, he rated Smith no. 2 after Don before his decline (I may very well be remembering wrong though, was very new to the forum back then).

 

[ma1978]

Couldn't dominate bowlers.

far fewer innings of consequence

 

[subshakerz]

far fewer innings of consequence

Yes Kallis did have fewer such innings.

 

[subshakerz]

IIRC, he rated Smith no. 2 after Don before his decline (I may very well be remembering wrong though, was very new to the forum back then).

Yes. I said that by the end of 2022 he would be no.2 if he kept his scoring up and many here agreed. He didn't though and has had a dip so I rate him no.6 after Bradman, Sachin, Hobbs, Sobers and Viv. However, many here have downgraded him far too much.

I used to bash Smiths home record as inflated and he has relatively less exposure to ATG pacers (still believe that) but still believe that being the top bat of this era and near flawless record gives him the top tier secured.

Smith is a notch above Lara, etc and the rest.

 

[subshakerz]

I must say I don't think these two are far apart, but...

You watch them, and it's not about being boring. It's about being able to put the opponent on the back foot, change the game plan / rotation and to set up the game, if not turn it on its head in a session.

It's about being able to get the bowlers to change their lines and even fields and putting them on the defensive.

And it's objectively harder to do that than it is to remain in your bubble and score at your own rate. The bailey to dominate is priceless, more difficult, and more impactful.

Not about aesthetics.

Yes. I will also say, for great bowlers, unless you attack them, the chance of grinding them down is much lower.

Australia weren't losing sleep over Kallis batting them out of the match.

Asif said how he preferred to play Dravid more than Sehwag since he let him set his plans.

 

[Coronis]

Yes. I will also say, for great bowlers, unless you attack them, the chance of grinding them down is much lower.

Australia weren't losing sleep over Kallis batting them out of the match.

Asif said how he preferred to play Dravid more than Sehwag since he let him set his plans.

Impressive that he noticed that in all 2 matches he played against them. One where the two faced a combined 25 balls and the other where Dravid scored a ton.

 

[subshakerz]

Impressive that he noticed that in all 2 matches he played against them. One where the two faced a combined 25 balls and the other where Dravid scored a ton.

This isnt that hard. Sehwag in the second test hammered the opening partnership and Asif got both guys out in the next test.

 

[Coronis]

This isnt that hard. Sehwag in the second test hammered the opening partnership and Asif got both guys out in the next test.

If 9 runs off 14 balls is enough to ruin your bowling plans then I don’t take Asif’s opinion that seriously. Much worse than Dravid hitting 6 off 16 balls off Asif in the same time period.

 

[Slifer]

Yes. I said that by the end of 2022 he would be no.2 if he kept his scoring up and many here agreed. He didn't though and has had a dip so I rate him no.6 after Bradman, Sachin, Hobbs, Sobers and Viv. However, many here have downgraded him far too much.

I used to bash Smiths home record as inflated and he has relatively less exposure to ATG pacers (still believe that) but still believe that being the top bat of this era and near flawless record gives him the top tier secured.

Smith is a notch above Lara, etc and the rest.

Well you could've fooled me. But yes, unless he completely nose dives, Smith is the test batsman of his generation.

 

[subshakerz]

If 9 runs off 14 balls is enough to ruin your bowling plans then I don’t take Asif’s opinion that seriously. Much worse than Dravid hitting 6 off 16 balls off Asif in the same time period.

I think as the bowler we can trust who he finds more difficult to bowl to. Unless you think he is lying.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

I think as the bowler we can trust who he finds more difficult to bowl to. Unless you think he is lying.

There's no way that Asif was lying as he was a completely honest cricketer.

 

[BazBall21]

Viv