Virender Sehwag vs Alastair Cook

[sayon basak]

Good to see Cook get some love.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Cook. He did a good job opening in England and was very good in the conditions where Sehwag excelled. Sehwag's average when opening in England, South Africa and New Zealand is tailender level.

As if Cook's averages of 27 in NZ and 31 in SA are much better lmao come on, such a poor argument not borne out by the numbers. There's barely any meaningful difference in their away records. Cook feels like should have a better away record because of vibes (and the conventional technique he possessed) but he factually doesn't.

Sehwag comfortably better than cook imo because in the conditions he was good in, he was arguably the most dangerous batsmen ever.

 

[BazBall21]

As if Cook's averages of 27 in NZ and 31 in SA are much better lmao come on. There's barely any meaningful difference in their away records. Cook feels like should have a better away records because of vibes but he factually doesn't.

Sehwag comfortably better than cook imo because in the conditions he was good in, he was arguably the most dangerous batsmen ever.

I never claimed Cook was some superstar against lateral movement or any kind of pace bowling but he proved himself as at least solid in that regard with his commendable record in England. Did also have a decent tour of SAF in 2009-10. I tend to favour the more versatile player.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Sehwag comfortably better than cook imo because in the conditions he was good in, he was arguably the most dangerous batsmen ever.

Asking for a friend...why doesn't this logic ever apply to Ashwin against an equally staid performer like Pollock? You'd think he's the bowling equivalent of Sehwag in that comparison to Cook's Pollock.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Asking for a friend...why doesn't this logic ever apply to Ashwin against an equally staid performer like Pollock? You'd think he's the bowling equivalent of Sehwag in that comparison to Cook's Pollock.

I don't think Ashwin is as good as pollock as a bowler so not sure what relevance this has lol.

Why not engage with the post itself instead of trying a piss-weak gotcha.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I never claimed Cook was some superstar against lateral movement or any kind of pace bowling but he proved himself as at least solid in that regard with his commendable record in England. Did also have a decent tour of SAF in 2009-10. I tend to favour the more versatile player.

He did a decent job in England of course but ultimately it's his home conditions and they weren't really as helpful for bowling until around 2014 imo when they really began to spice up. He's also not facing Anderson and broad who exploit the conditions extraordinarily well, and sucked against SA and Aus Giving him too many bonus points for him as though his home conditions are SA level tough doesn't seem right to me at all.

And in the other countries you named he's barely better than sehwag statistically. He was obviously better at handling seam and swing than sehwag, a blind man could see that. However, on the records at least ,I really don't think there's any difference. They're both poor in SA/NZ but it's only sehwag who has that reputation and cook doesn't because one batted like a drugged up moron and the other tried hard but still failed. The latter feels like he should have done way better but didn't really.

I'll say cook could do a better job hanging in there but it's just not enough to overturn how destructive sehwag to be in his favoured conditions imo.

 

[J_C]

I'd pick the guy who excelled against McWarne, Murali and Steyn.

 

[BazBall21]

He did a decent job in England of course but ultimately it's his home conditions and they weren't really as helpful for bowling until around 2014 imo when they really began to spice up. He's also not facing Anderson and broad who exploit the conditions extraordinarily well, and sucked against SA and Aus Giving him too many bonus points for him as though his home conditions are SA level tough doesn't seem right to me at all.

And in the other countries you named he's barely better than sehwag statistically. He was obviously better at handling seam and swing than sehwag, a blind man could see that. However, on the records at least ,I really don't think there's any difference. They're both poor in SA/NZ but it's only sehwag who has that reputation and cook doesn't because one batted like a drugged up moron and the other tried hard but still failed. The latter feels like he should have done way better but didn't really.

I'll say cook could do a better job hanging in there but it's just not enough to overturn how destructive sehwag to be in his favoured conditions imo.

I agree that Cook wasn't great v quality pace and even somewhat disagree (though I can see the angle you are conveying is more that his discipline conveyed a quintessential successful opener v the moving ball) that his somewhat underwhelming record v quality pace attacks and in conditions where the ball moved laterally belied the eye test. Cook's trigger was a bit late which hurried him v the extra pace and bounce of bowlers like Morkel and his bat grip&the initial heavy front foot weight in his stance made it difficult for him to come forward cleanly which caused issues v swing and seam.

It was a common feature against the better pace attacks he faced that he would dig out some gritty contributions which was better than nothing, especially as it helped the middle order batsmen, but lacked match-shaping scores outside some good exceptions.

I know that you value Sehwag's extreme point of difference factor highly which is perfectly reasonable. But England being Cook's home conditions doesn't reduce the significance of his better credentials v lateral movement imo. His record there, while not spectacular, conveys an extent of solidity when openers are needed most that Sehwag never really applied. To me, that is more significant than Sehwag being even better in conditions where Cook excelled. Sehwag averaging early 20s as an opener across England, South Africa and New Zealand when Cook ploughed out a solid account of himself in England and was very good in Asia is hard for me to look past.

And while Sehwag was a more unique matchwinner, Cook himself was a beast at setting games up with daddy hundreds. He didn't give his bowlers as much time as Sehwag did, but his ability to pile on the runs when he got set no doubt won England many games nevertheless. He was good at plundering runs v opponents in a consistent manner across a series. Australia (2010-11) and India (2012) are the iconic examples but Cook did it frequently throughout his career. Tbh, I wish we had a player like that now who doesn't leave runs out there on good day one tracks!

I think it's very debatable, and would certainly have them in the same tier. But if I have to choose, I'm taking Cook.

Sorry it's so long.

 

[Johan]

I think both Cook and Sehwag are underrated here. Really I could make arguments for each of Sehwag, Cook, Hayden and Smith being the best. And all ahead of Boycott and behind Greenidge.

Amazing, of the five given names...not a single is ahead of Boycott.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Cook sucked against high quality pace. Let’s not act like there’s big difference between them against pace.

 

[Johan]

Cook sucked against high quality pace. Let’s not act like there’s big difference between them against pace.

while he had a weakness against pace let's not pretend it's anywhere near as big as Sehwag against pace, I can think of him playing match winning or defining games in England/SA (Against Steyn), while he had a problem against taller pacers like Morkel or Ishant he handled everything else well (nothing amazing but fine), Sehwag was weak against pace in general and a liability when the ball moved or had awkward bounce.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Amazing, of the five given names...not a single is ahead of Boycott.

Boycott was a good player but it’s not unreasonable to rate any of those five ahead of him. I’d have him somewhere in the middle personally.

 

[Johan]

Boycott was a good player but it’s not unreasonable to rate any of those five ahead of him. I’d have him somewhere in the middle personally.

>cook sucked against quality pace
>cook can be argued higher than Boycott, who at 40+ (in age) put in a performance against the greatest pace attack that ever walked god's green Earth, in the 80s

make it make sense

 

[Thala_0710]

Greenidge and Boycott similar level of bats for me and Smith is close. Ahead of the other 3 by not much but a decent enough margin imo

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I do rate Boycott higher than Cook/Sehwag/Hayden but it ain’t some massive difference.

Being good against high quality pace doesn’t automatically make you a much greater player.

Clarke produced performances against pace that Cook wasn’t capable of but it’s not unreasonable to rate Cook higher than Clarke .

 

[Johan]

Clarke was utterly inconsistent against Pace, he played some amazing knocks here and there but he had his flaws against pace bowling objectively as well, I'd say he was much lesser if the ball swung then Cook, but he was much greater if it was a fast and bouncy pitch.

the fact is, Boycott was averaging 50+ 14 years into his international career, put in performance against the greatest bowlers ever and he did everything in 70s compared to the 2000s, his record is compareable to Smith (who has the best of the four) while playing in a much tougher era with greatest longetivity.

Boycott and Greenidge are well clear of the 2000s openers.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Boycott didn’t really have that great longevity. He only played 108 games. He missed many games throughout his career. You don’t get longevity points if you miss games.

 

[Johan]

Clarke was a pretty insane HTB, his record against SA at home is insane, that's true but he was visibly weak against swing, his record against Anderson and Broad should tell you that much.

He missed his peak years due to board dispute and he still has better statistics than them all around the world, if he didn't have the dispute there would be an ever bigger gulf between them, but that doesn't change the fact he is superior to the other three regardless of the lost three years of peak, I don't think an argument can even be made for three of the four 2000s openers against either Boyc or Greenidge.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Clarke was a pretty insane HTB, his record against SA at home is insane, that's true but he was visibly weak against swing, his record against Anderson and Broad should tell you that much.

He missed his peak years due to board dispute and he still has better statistics than them all around the world, if he didn't have the dispute there would be an ever bigger gulf between them, but that doesn't change the fact he is superior to the other three regardless of the lost three years of peak, I don't think an argument can even be made for three of the four 2000s openers against either Boyc or Greenidge.

Alright we can agree to disagree. I think G Smith was at the same level as Greenidge and Boycott. He had some really spicy home pitches.

 

[_00_deathscar]

>cook sucked against quality pace
>cook can be argued higher than Boycott, who at 40+ (in age) put in a performance against the greatest pace attack that ever walked god's green Earth, in the 80s

make it make sense

Because there’s more to cricket than just playing high quality pace attacks