Virat Kohli, the greatest ODI bat ever?

[TheJediBrah]

Why? Batsmen dominating doesn't mean quality has dropped. The rule changes with two new balls and quality of bats have helped batsmen but that doesn't mean anyone's skill degraded.

This isn't the first time this topic has come up lol

Both things can happen at the same time. The game changed to drastically favour batsmen more than ever through a variety of mechanisms and at the same time the quality of bowling dropped. Many would say it's directly causative but I don't think it's that simple.

What's indisuptable though, is that if you took an average sample of bowling quality from ODI games in the 90s/early-00s and compared it to a sample from anywhere from the late 00s until now, the former is going to be significantly stronger.

There are a variety of reasons for this but one of the main ones is teams just don't play their full strength bowlers in most games anymore. You don't need to think that bowlers' skills have degraded for the quality of attacks in ODIs to have dropped.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

If you just arbitrarily assume he would have been better in hypothetical situations he never actually encountered then naturally he'll come out better but there's no reason anyone else has to take such claims seriously.

Its not Hypothetical
Sachin's avg and SR as opener was extra ordinary in the slow scoring era of pre 1996 WC.
Sachin was the only match winner in the team before the emergence of Viru and Yuvi, that forced him to play cautiously, Viv or Abdv has no such issues.
When Kohli and Sachin played together, their avgs wwere almost same, but Sachin's SR was considerably higher, Sachin's century ratio too was better.
( Kohli was among top 5 or even top 3 batsmen in the world during that period, still a declining over aged Sachin statistically outclassed him, in fact Sachin's SR was closer to Abdv's than Kohli's.)

Its all facts.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Easily better than Sachin now.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Easily better than Sachin now.

He bats very slow now for a great batsman.

 

[centurymaker]

Pure Batsmanship - Tendulkar

Pure Efficiency / single mindedness - Kohli

 

[centurymaker]

"Single" minded
just realised it can be seen as a troll comment lol

 

[Flem274*]

It's still Viv for me, much like Jonah is still the greatest 11 in rugby. Someone would have to average 50+ at a 120 SR against the best around to equal him imo.

Kohli is still in the top echelon though. Potentially #2 of the top order batsmen.

 

[ashley bach]

 

[honestbharani]

For me, its

Platnium Tier - Richards, Sachin, Virat, MSD, Bevan, AB (in that order)

Then you have the Gold Tier with Zaheer Abbas, Lara, Ponting, Hussey etc.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Leaving aside Viv who is probably ahead, Sachin dominated 3 World Cups. This is the first one Kohli is dominating.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Leaving aside Viv who is probably ahead, Sachin dominated 3 World Cups. This is the first one Kohli is dominating.

This is a little unfair on Kohli since Sachin played six cups, and this is only Kohli's 4th. Secondly Kohli bats at three and is less likely to end up amongst the top scorers at a WC, as compared to an opener. Take 2019, Kohli had five consecutive fifties, but openers were batting for so long, that that's all he got. He could easily scored 500+ that WC, if not for Rohit's beastly form. And this WC, despite playing one less match, and batting at three, Kohli's already gone past Sachin's 2003 record, and hit a hundred in an SF(something SRT never managed and his 85 vs Pak was a very iffy knock), so he's had a better WC than Sachin ever had.

 

[Victor Ian]

Kohli is quite amazing, but if you are going to discuss his minimised chances to accumulate because of being number 3, you should also remember his maximised chances to accumulate because ODI's are now just F50's.
Tendulkar's 650ish is probably 1000 runs in this tournament.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Kohli is quite amazing, but if you are going to discuss his minimised chances to accumulate because of being number 3, you should also remember his maximised chances to accumulate because ODI's are now just F50's.
Tendulkar's 650ish is probably 1000 runs in this tournament.

Sure, 1000ish for an opener, but for a number three, 800+ should be enough, especially considering that he would have performed in both KOs, and I aint rating SRT's 80 odd vs Kenya higher than Kohli's 100 on Friday

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Pretty strong case to be #2 now

 

[subshakerz]

I think Kohli in this tournament has produced a chasing masterclass that pips him ahead of Tendulkar. Tendulkar never had this exceptional a series.

The conversation now should be Viv vs. Kohli.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

This is a little unfair on Kohli since Sachin played six cups, and this is only Kohli's 4th. Secondly Kohli bats at three and is less likely to end up amongst the top scorers at a WC, as compared to an opener. Take 2019, Kohli had five consecutive fifties, but openers were batting for so long, that that's all he got. He could easily scored 500+ that WC, if not for Rohit's beastly form. And this WC, despite playing one less match, and batting at three, Kohli's already gone past Sachin's 2003 record, and hit a hundred in an SF(something SRT never managed and his 85 vs Pak was a very iffy knock), so he's had a better WC than Sachin ever had.

Kohli's SF 100 was slower than Sachin's 100th 100. Its not noticeable, because the SR was 100+. ( 100 SR in a 400 total innings )

 

[TheJediBrah]

PFK being anti-Kohli is such an interesting dynamic

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

PFK being anti-Kohli is such an interesting dynamic

It’s more pro-Sachin than anything

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Kohli's SF 100 was slower than Sachin's 100th 100. Its not noticeable, because the SR was 100+. ( 100 SR in a 400 total innings )

Adjusting more than 25 SR points is highly excessive. Plus can’t compare a semis hundred with a useless one that lost India a match, and ensured that even one of the ATG innings in a chase in the succeeding match vs Pak was enough for India in the cup.(tho I’m pretty sure you’ll rate a random 80 by Sachin greater than any Kohli chase).

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Adjusting more than 25 SR points is highly excessive. Plus can’t compare a semis hundred with a useless one that lost India a match, and ensured that even one of the ATG innings in a chase in the succeeding match vs Pak was enough for India in the cup.(tho I’m pretty sure you’ll rate a random 80 by Sachin greater than any Kohli chase).

Sachin's 100 th 100 was faster than Kohli's 50th 100 compared to rest of the batsmen in their teams.
Kohli would have faced lot more criticism, if the team total was 280 and his score was 110 ball 75.