*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Moss]

Right decision of course, a sustained period of below-par performances isn’t a good look for a captain and Southee probably looked at the India tour and decided it isn’t getting easier anytime soon. He’s probably reasoned he’s better off trying to force his way back in for home conditions (though obviously it remains to be seen if NZ are prepared to leave him out, starting with Bangalore which was the scene of his revival back in 2012).

Not that Latham exactly commands a place in the side on recent form, but hopefully he has a more optimal attack to work with in India.

 

[Bahnz]

Not that Latham exactly commands a place in the side on recent form, but hopefully he has a more optimal attack to work with in India.

He's fine as a transition captain for the remainder of the tour.

Big question is who should get the gig for the home summer? Daryl Mitchell probably the most likely candidate, but at 33 it'd be another short-term fix, and one vulnerable to a form drop-off in 18 months time. Phillips seems to me to be the likely long-term candidate, but I kinda want to wait until after Stead is gone, and then bring in a fresh Captain/Coach combo who are on the same page about the direction the team should be heading in.

 

[jcas0167]

Southee's record as captain - I think that nail biting win over England last year was the high point.

Played: 14

Won: 6

Lost: 6

Drawn: 2

 

[Bahnz]

As a captain, I think Southee was perfectly fine, definitely better than Latham, arguably better than KW (in particular he was a lot less shy of taking a punt with the spinners and not immediately yanking them off after getting hit for a couple of 6's). Also made the very sensible decision to bowl his underperforming new ball swing specialist as little as possible once he realised how past it he was.

 

[jcas0167]

Yeah, I think Southee had better captaincy instincts than those two who are probably more conservative in their approach to captaincy and batting (obv). A shame it coincided with his form dropping off after a reasonable revival where he outperformed Boult.

 

[straw man]

Well that's news.

I was surprised when I looked up the other day that it's already been nearly 2 years and 14 tests since Southee took over - does not feel like it. Two years was about what people expected when he took over. Obv his bowling decline has undermined his ability to continue as captain - 22/23 season was ok, but the 23/24 season until now has been 8 tests averaging 57, while keeping better bowlers out of the side.

As others have posted, this helps with selection in the immediate term i.e. Southee can be left out in India, but Latham under Stead's coaching is not going to provide the fresh direction we all want to see either.

 

[Chubb]

Finn Allen for test captain.

 

[thundaboult]

Finn Allen for test captain.

finn pep talk: lads, dont play test cricket

*walks out*

 

[thierry henry]

Well that's news.

I was surprised when I looked up the other day that it's already been nearly 2 years and 14 tests since Southee took over - does not feel like it. Two years was about what people expected when he took over. Obv his bowling decline has undermined his ability to continue as captain - 22/23 season was ok, but the 23/24 season until now has been 8 tests averaging 57, while keeping better bowlers out of the side.

As others have posted, this helps with selection in the immediate term i.e. Southee can be left out in India, but Latham under Stead's coaching is not going to provide the fresh direction we all want to see either.

Honestly his stint wasn't the woooorst....we outplayed Pakistan in Pakistan, somehow managed that drawn series vs BazBall, beat Sri Lanka and South Africa B and I guess even coming back to draw the series in Bangladesh was somewhat creditable.

I still reckon the 18 months post-WTC and pre-Southee was worse. Southee's era is more like, we stabilised at a level of "quite ****" following a dramatic decline from good to **** before he took over.

 

[TheBrand]

Are the England tests the last tests before Stead's contract expires?

I'm not opposed to GP being captain but I think he's such an x-factor player we should just let him do his thing for a couple more years.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Are the England tests the last tests before Stead's contract expires?

Yes. His contract is to the 2025 WTC final (scheduled 11-15 June with a possible 6th day on the 16th) which we obviously can't make. We don't have any tests scheduled between the Eng tests and the final.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm not opposed to GP being captain but I think he's such an x-factor player we should just let him do his thing for a couple more years.

Yeah, though unfortunately Stead's left us with no great candidates. You'd ideally want someone in the 27-31 age range with 30+ tests under their belt and a sure place in the side (preferably with some time under their belt as VC or limited overs captain). We're either going to have to go with another short-term fix like Mitchell or take a bit of a punt on one of the inexperienced players. Or stick with Latham (as uninspiring an option as that seems).

 

[Bahnz]

Although tbf to Stead (yuck) I always think this was going to be a problem to some extent or another. All of the top 7 were within a couple years of each other age-wise until 12 months ago. Yes, Nicholls could've been moved on from earlier than he was...but not much earlier (worth remembering that Nicholls scored an excellent hundred v SA as late as 2022). I think the 2023 England series was probably the time when a reasonable selector would've viewed Nicholls performances as demanding replacement. So really we were probably always going to have to make a choice between a relative newbie, a caretaker, or Latham.

 

[Moss]

I don’t think NZ need to identify a long-term captain overnight (not that there are many options anyway), but they shouldn’t sit on it either. Can recall Kane captaining the limited overs sides regularly whenever McCullum sat out, so he was ready to step in. So I’d start using the ODI/T20 sides as an audition. Trouble is NZ haven’t played any ODI cricket since the WC and no idea how many are coming up.

 

[Nintendo]

Is rachin a captaincy option? Only player in the side who's not been given captaincy before/should be around long and/or consistently enough to be captain.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I don’t think NZ need to identify a long-term captain overnight (not that there are many options anyway), but they shouldn’t sit on it either. Can recall Kane captaining the limited overs sides regularly whenever McCullum sat out, so he was ready to step in. So I’d start using the ODI/T20 sides as an audition. Trouble is NZ haven’t played any ODI cricket since the WC and no idea how many are coming up.

Quite a lot of ODIs according to cricschedule.com/ftp...

NZ has 3 ODIs & 3 T20s in SL in Nov - I assume it won't imclude players in contention for the test squad vs Eng

SL then come to NZ in Dec/Jan for 3 ODIs and T20s. Conway & Williamson away in SAFFA T20 league??

In Feb there is a very short ODI triseries in Pakistan with the home nation, NZ, and SA. This is even a wikipedia page for this series already!

This is prior to the Champions Trophy in Pak where we are in a group with India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

March/April - Pakistan return the favour and travel to NZ for white ball cricket

END of Stead's contract

June - WTC final which obviously NZ won't be in

July - Coach ???? takes us to Zimbabwe

T20 triseries with Zim, NZ, and SA followed by
2 tests & 3 ODIs vs Zimbabwe

 

[SteveNZ]

I suggested Justin Langer in another thread...yes? No?

 

[Moss]

I suggested Justin Langer in another thread...yes? No?

Interesting one. While I could never warm up to the whole corporate speak and baggy green-inspired public displays of patriotism, he may be the sort of personality the side needs. Somehow can’t picture him and Williamson hanging out on the team bus together, but you never know.

 

[Flem274*]

Please no. He's the extroverted Stead. All platitude, zero depth of thought.

 

[thierry henry]

Langer has expertise in plumbing the lowest of depths - losing test series to India at home. Surely we don't want to add that to our repertoire.