*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[nzfan]

I do agree with @Howsie they could have tried few younger ones such as Troy, Clarkson, Ashok.

Rutherford is an interesting one. They picked him for series vs South Africa at home, then picked him for UK tour and came in as a replacement for Kane. Now he's nowhere to be seen. They could have brought in Rachin then if they were serious giving youth a go. In fact they batted Rachin at 8 or 9 vs a county side and now he's in the NZ A, probably will open batting or you never know they may bat him below Logan Van Beek. I wouldn't put past them to do this.... oh wait there is no Gary on the tour and hopefully not pulling any strings so there will be some sensibility in the line ups. There is a lot of inconsistency in selections particularly for the next in line or fringe players.

Gary and Larsen will create such a big hole in my opinion by consistently ignoring youth we will be in serious **** probably after 5 years when all the stalwarts have hung their boots.

 

[Immenso]

My problem with Tom Bruce is that he’s consistently batted at 5-6 for the majority of his career. If you want to make a claim for the test team you have to bat in the top 4, period.

Even most keepers in the shield bat no lower than 5.

This is also same for Rob O'Donnell , actually.

 

[ataraxia]

Much rather Bruce picked than O'Donnell. It was such a gun season for him.

 

[Immenso]

Okay, but who? Beyond Rachin. Troy Johnson?

The two 25's-and-under you could justify on career numbers would be Troy Johnson and Dale Phillips. Especially as both bat at 3 for their province.

If picking conservative, but plucking one youngster to also tour but maybe not play very much. You could go one of either Tim Robinson or Jacob Cumming. Obviously neither would have actually earned an 'A' team spot at this stage on merit, but being a beneficiary of being young and promising at the right time and place.

I think they've put more weight on the 3 white-ball games than I would have - based on the selections of Bowes and Solia.

 

[Immenso]

I think Cleaver will/should play a lot of the matches as a specialist batsman, with Fletcher also in playing 11s as keeper. To get the best out of their resources, and promote the most game time for (the few) test potential players in that squad.

 

[NZTailender]

The two 25's-and-under you could justify on career numbers would be Troy Johnson and Dale Phillips. Especially as both bat at 3 for their province.

If picking conservative, but plucking one youngster to also tour but maybe not play very much. You could go either Tim Robinson or Jacob Cumming.

I think they've put more weight on the 3 white-ball games than I would have - based on the selections of Bowes and Solia.

Yeah ideally you'd have separate squads for red and white ball but it being an A tour by a relatively small board that's unlikely.

IMHO in a squad of 15 a good break down would be:

6 players in the 18-24 range
6 in the 25-30 range
3 in the 31+ range

 

[straw man]

The two 25's-and-under you could justify on career numbers would be Troy Johnson and Dale Phillips. Especially as both bat at 3 for their province.

If picking conservative, but plucking one youngster to also tour but maybe not play very much. You could go one of either Tim Robinson or Jacob Cumming. Obviously neither would have actually earned an 'A' team spot at this stage on merit, but being a beneficiary of being young and promising at the right time and place.

I think they've put more weight on the 3 white-ball games than I would have - based on the selections of Bowes and Solia.

I haven't seen very much of him at all, but W O'Donnell has some good scores early in his domestic career and at 24 can be grouped with Johnson and D Phillips.

Also, I had just assumed that Shipley was in this NZ A side as someone mentioned him earlier in the thread... but no. I find that surprising - total obvious gun, no, but has had a good start to his FC career (limited overs, less so) and if he could add a little pace could be decent, particularly as a backup to Jamieson.

Can bat too, I would've taken him instead of Solia or Van Beek.

Edit: "Seam bowling all-rounders Henry Shipley (Canterbury) ... were ruled out of contention due to injury "

 

[thundaboult]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Fisher yeah ... but doesn't lister bowl at 120? Not sure how that helps at intl level unless he has cdg bowking accuracy + batting talent

 

[Bahnz]

Feel a bit for Will Williams. Yeah the guy's a plodder but 140 wickets at 22 and he can't even get in the NZA squad ahead of someone like Lister is a bit rough.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Feel a bit for Will Williams. Yeah the guy's a plodder but 140 wickets at 22 and he can't even get in the NZA squad ahead of someone like Lister is a bit rough.

Williams has forsaken NZ to play for Lancashire.

 

[Bahnz]

Williams has forsaken NZ to play for Lancashire.

Forgot about that, pity but hope he goes well.

EDIT: I see he's had a very promising start for them, good on him.

 

[Immenso]

Forgot about that, pity but hope he goes well.

EDIT: I see he's had a very promising start for them, good on him.

Despite Williams availability, Lister is way better/versatile across formats, particularly T20 where he looks quite adept already in his roles. Plus he's way younger.

A much better punt than Williams.

 

[Immenso]

I still think Shipley is the standout omission from that squad.

Yes, his FC bowling record is inflated by being in the green PS pitch era (but so are his peers), and his white ball record was terrible until his fantastic last season.

Would gave been great to see him perform under alien conditions and a higher level.

Could see him as a potential future 3rd or 4th seamer at test level.

 

[straw man]

I complained earlier about that, but then found that Shipley is injured and so wasn't considered.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

CDG picked in the BBL draft (along with Boult and Munro). I wonder if he's been told he won't be picked for the Pakistan tour.

 

[TheBrand]

CDG picked in the BBL draft (along with Boult and Munro). I wonder if he's been told he won't be picked for the Pakistan tour.

massive surprise, given he wasn't even on the original draft list... haha

 

[vandem]

CDG picked in the BBL draft (along with Boult and Munro). I wonder if he's been told he won't be picked for the Pakistan tour.

Bizarre, de Grandhomme wasn't on the cricket.com.au list of available players published 22nd Aug. Does this mean that de Grandhomme has also resigned from his NZC contract?

 

[Howsie]

I’ve never been a big fan of Tom Latham in the one day team, but understand why he’ll be useful in 2023. But surely for this series Conway keeps and be just misses out?

1. Guptill
2. Allen
3. Williamson
4. Conway
5. Mitchell
6. Phillips
7. Neesham

Six is way to low for Mitchell, especially in Australia. I highly doubt Stead has the cojones to effectively drop him though.

 

[Nintendo]

I’ve never been a big fan of Tom Latham in the one day team, but understand why he’ll be useful in 2023. But surely for this series Conway keeps and be just misses out?

1. Guptill
2. Allen
3. Williamson
4. Conway
5. Mitchell
6. Phillips
7. Neesham

Six is way to low for Mitchell, especially in Australia. I highly doubt Stead has the cojones to effectively drop him though.

As much as I don't like it, think phillips will continue to miss out. Hugely talented player but latham as averaged 70 or something ridiculous like that in the past year or two for NZ in ODI's, there not dropping him.

1.Guptill
2.Allen
3.Williamson
4.Conway
5.Latham/Mitchell
6.Mitchell/Latham
7.Neesham/Bracewell

Will most likely be the top 7. Optimally they should drop guptill, let conway open and bring phillips in and/or move neeshaw up one and play bracewell ala

1.Conway
2.Allen
3.Willamson
4.Mitchell
5.Latham
6.Phillips/Bracewell
7.Neesham/Bracewell

But Guptill is an NZ great, think the managment will back him ALA Aus with finch until the end of this world cup.

 

[SteveNZ]

Hot take - Tom Latham is a better ODI player than he is a Test player. He's played a significant amount of important knocks over the past 3 years, starting with the World Cup final, and big knocks in crunch run chases most importantly. He gives a better balance to the side by being a keeper in the top 5, is our best player of spin through the middle stages, also plays pace well and can finish OK. He's in our best XI every day of the week, for me.

To me, you can still get Allen in, and you have to. 1. Guptill 2. Allen 3. Williamson 4. Conway 5. Latham 6. Mitchell 7. Neesham 8. Santner 9. Southee 10. Ferguson 11. Boult