*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[nzfan]

Neesham is cut from the contract I see, no loss I guess for Neesham. In a way it's not bad for him. In the past he would have been restricted to play just the IPL but now he's got free reign to go where he likes. In any case he was restricted to white ball cricket only with black caps. He'll be sought after in all the leagues in the world and whatever little cash he made from the contract he'll make from couple of leagues in under a month. I guess it offers him good freedom, he won't have to turn up for domestic cricket and put his body on the line. He can probably say no to the domestic contract and become a free lancer. I think he was in the same spot few years ago but then he still would have wanted to play all formats for black caps. I don't think he'll care anymore and shouldn't do.

Bold move getting Bracewell in the contract mix. Some bold moves such as getting Devon on the contract before he qualified was a good move so was bringing Darryl Mitchell in the mix. It was a **** move to remove Ajaz from the contract last year though. Michael Bracewell could do with some extra cash for sure, he's been on the domestic circuit for like a decade, now over thirty, has had a kid recently. Good for him and hopefully he'll enjoy good few years.

 

[nzfan]

There's definitely one thing that screams out and the younger players should take notice. The goal post is slowly shifting, ford trophy and PS stats don't have the kind of strength super smash stats have of late. Having a phenomenal super smash will go a long way in setting up one's career particularly in a t20 world cup year. As much as I like red ball cricket and often scoff off super smash exploits, in the eyes of selectors and powers to be it does matter lots. T20 world cups happen far too frequently compared to a 50 overs WC and WTC. The ODIs will only build up once every four years prior world cup. We don't get as much test cricket in any case so the chances of establishing as a player in this format is not feasible. Besides test cricket is the least up for experiment, you generally see the same blokes playing test cricket for many years. T20 is the king like it or not.

 

[Flem274*]

Administrators are determined to tell us we like T20 the most whether we like it or not, but I've ranted about that before so won't punish you with it.

In my (anecdotal) experience, mates I've forced cricket on tend to land on liking ODIs the most if they're already sports fans. Sports fans know what a contrived cash grab looks like.

 

[nzfan]

Meanwhile Will Young in great touch for Norhants. Scored 134 batting first. Starting to think it's time he dominates for Black Caps. I'm picking Will to be the most impact player in the up coming test series (likely Conway will score more than anyone ).

 

[SteveNZ]

Meanwhile Will Young in great touch for Norhants. Scored 134 batting first. Starting to think it's time he dominates for Black Caps. I'm picking Will to be the most impact player in the up coming test series (likely Conway will score more than anyone ).

Bit of a double edged sword that one - given he's scoring them as an opener. 2nd Div runs have typically been much easier to come by (don't know a lot about any of the Warwickshire attack apart from McAndrew). Still much rather see Conway open at Lord's (as he did last time when he scored the double ton) and Young bat at 4.

 

[thierry henry]

Isn’t Neesham firmly in our best ODI XI and generally in our best T20 side? This seems like using the lack of ODIs we’ve played lately as an excuse to leave him out. Don’t we have World Cups in both formats around the corner?

 

[Flem274*]

We're gonna get creamed in the ODI wc. We haven't played one since the tie almost.

 

[nzfan]

Bit of a double edged sword that one - given he's scoring them as an opener. 2nd Div runs have typically been much easier to come by (don't know a lot about any of the Warwickshire attack apart from McAndrew). Still much rather see Conway open at Lord's (as he did last time when he scored the double ton) and Young bat at 4.

Any runs are good runs to be honest. Yes it's 2nd div but the most potential bowlers at this time of the year in UK are those slow, swinging bowlers. Dukes ball and it'll still do plenty off the deck and in the air.

 

[nzfan]

Isn’t Neesham firmly in our best ODI XI and generally in our best T20 side? This seems like using the lack of ODIs we’ve played lately as an excuse to leave him out. Don’t we have World Cups in both formats around the corner?

Suppose they are planning already for WC in India. Would you take Neesham or Bracewell for West Indies, Pakistan and one day WC in India next year? I'm not saying it's the way to go but given the way Gary Stead was describing Bracewell's bowling he should be in their radar for all these tours. I wouldn't think they would have given Bracewell a contract so that he can play vs dutch, scotland and Ireland.

 

[ataraxia]

It's 1st div, isn't it?

 

[SteveNZ]

Any runs are good runs to be honest. Yes it's 2nd div but the most potential bowlers at this time of the year in UK are those slow, swinging bowlers. Dukes ball and it'll still do plenty off the deck and in the air.

Not really what he's going to be facing in a few weeks' time, however. He's going to have to be making decisions at a much faster pace, with opposition who know a lot more about him.

 

[SteveNZ]

It's 1st div, isn't it?

Pardon me, it's 1st Division. My bad. Therefore, more so I'm talking about the quality of the attack.

 

[Immenso]

Yes, it is Div 1. But even if it was Div2 - it will be way better prep than the miscellaenous classed warm-up games we have arranged for ourselves.

 

[Immenso]

On the subject of the miscellaenous classed warm-up games .

For the record, I ****ing hate them. But I can understand if you only have one game, then it is best to make it squad size rather than 11-a-side.

We have 2 of these games.

I could then understand making the first one, everyone gets a car, but the second one should be proper mental prep, proper FC status.

OK, then someone, Fuller Pilch I think, said above. That they are of that status so that returning IPL players can drip feed in as they become available. OK, there's some logic .... I can junderstand that. But both games?

Then make the first one of FC status.

There are 2 sides to prep. The time in the middle and bowling loads etc. But also the mental side. Which comes with playing FC status matches that (at least some) people care about their career records.

We will turn up to the first test as mentally soft as a jellyfish, despite 2 warm-ups. That's not good enough.

It says something, that I hope Will Young and CdG will be kept away from the blackcaps camp during (at least part of) this time.

 

[Immenso]

There's definitely one thing that screams out and the younger players should take notice. The goal post is slowly shifting, ford trophy and PS stats don't have the kind of strength super smash stats have of late. Having a phenomenal super smash will go a long way in setting up one's career particularly in a t20 world cup year. As much as I like red ball cricket and often scoff off super smash exploits, in the eyes of selectors and powers to be it does matter lots. T20 world cups happen far too frequently compared to a 50 overs WC and WTC. The ODIs will only build up once every four years prior world cup. We don't get as much test cricket in any case so the chances of establishing as a player in this format is not feasible. Besides test cricket is the least up for experiment, you generally see the same blokes playing test cricket for many years. T20 is the king like it or not.

I don't think this is really fully correct.

Macewell came into NZ calculations after the previous season (he would have gone to Bangladesh ahead of McConchie but for child birth).
He scored 4 Plunket Shield hundreds that year.
His Plunket Shield career is actually a bit Duffy-like. He has too many stinker years.

But he has been elevated because he has done well in all 3 formats, in both disciplines, over the last 2 years. But, just not always at the same time. Like this year in PS.

For the record. I don't think he should have a central contract. Not ahead of Neesham.
I think he has earned his way into the spot to get some games at blackcap level and possibly earn a contract for the following year, if good enough.
I don't think this actually does Macewell any favours.

Is it T20 world cup this year, in Australia? I'd think Neesham is more likely than Macewell.

 

[Immenso]

Neesham is cut from the contract I see, no loss I guess for Neesham. In a way it's not bad for him. In the past he would have been restricted to play just the IPL but now he's got free reign to go where he likes. In any case he was restricted to white ball cricket only with black caps. He'll be sought after in all the leagues in the world and whatever little cash he made from the contract he'll make from couple of leagues in under a month. I guess it offers him good freedom, he won't have to turn up for domestic cricket and put his body on the line. He can probably say no to the domestic contract and become a free lancer. I think he was in the same spot few years ago but then he still would have wanted to play all formats for black caps. I don't think he'll care anymore and shouldn't do.

Bold move getting Bracewell in the contract mix. Some bold moves such as getting Devon on the contract before he qualified was a good move so was bringing Darryl Mitchell in the mix. It was a **** move to remove Ajaz from the contract last year though. Michael Bracewell could do with some extra cash for sure, he's been on the domestic circuit for like a decade, now over thirty, has had a kid recently. Good for him and hopefully he'll enjoy good few years.

That would be the (unspoken?) end to his international career though. Like Munro.
I think he's too young to do this, so I hope he still has ambition as an ODI and T20 world cup in the next 18 months.

He can do IPL (if good enough) plus Blast/Hundred and/or CPL.

But the other Asian leagues clash with an NZ domestic contract and would rule him out.

Domestics plus 2 overseas leagues in winter, plus some blackcaps match fees is still a very good living, with potential to be back in a cnetral contract in 12 months time.

But, I think this is a bit of a stupidly risky move by NZC contractors.

 

[nzfan]

I don't think this is really fully correct.

Macewell came into NZ calculations after the previous season (he would have gone to Bangladesh ahead of McConchie but for child birth).
He scored 4 Plunket Shield hundreds that year.
His Plunket Shield career is actually a bit Duffy-like. He has too many stinker years.

But he has been elevated because he has done well in all 3 formats, in both disciplines, over the last 2 years. But, just not always at the same time. Like this year in PS.

For the record. I don't think he should have a central contract. Not ahead of Neesham.
I think he has earned his way into the spot to get some games at blackcap level and possibly earn a contract for the following year, if good enough.
I don't think this actually does Macewell any favours.

Is it T20 world cup this year, in Australia? I'd think Neesham is more likely than Macewell.

If that was the case then he should have got a contract last year don't you think and not this year? Definitely has had couple of years of reasonable PS, not outstanding but reasonable. Hasn't had great List A season with the bat ever but has been complimenting with reasonable bowling. Not outstanding bowling but reasonable bowling. Did look up the stats and there is more reason to say the t20 has helped him elevate his status. He had a phenomenal t20 campaign last year.

Take for instance Finn Allen, one outstanding season at super smash and he's now played for NZ. Will be a shoo in for Black caps at t20 and gigs around the world.

The pathway has definitely been changing.

Toiling at PS what does that get you?

I'm not talking about the contract but in general the change in pathway and the prominence of t20 over other formats.

 

[nzfan]

That would be the (unspoken?) end to his international career though. Like Munro.
I think he's too young to do this, so I hope he still has ambition as an ODI and T20 world cup in the next 18 months.

He can do IPL (if good enough) plus Blast/Hundred and/or CPL.

But the other Asian leagues clash with an NZ domestic contract and would rule him out.

Domestics plus 2 overseas leagues in winter, plus some blackcaps match fees is still a very good living, with potential to be back in a cnetral contract in 12 months time.

But, I think this is a bit of a stupidly risky move by NZC contractors.

At the end of the day you have to look after yourself as a player. One dip in form, an injury will make you redundant if you are on the fringes. Particularly for those that bowl pace. Our domestic contracts are not worthy enough the toil in my opinion if you are over 30. A small shelf life particularly if you are over 30 unless you are at the level of Kane, Boult, Southee, Conway etc...

Big bash, hundred, blast, CPL, IPL, PSL, UAE T20, T10 and the list goes on. Most will pay a minimum of 50k for a player like Neesham. If you are doing well in other leagues chances are you could get picked up by IPL for good cash. Someone like Tim David. He's been picked on his exploits in big bash.

I don't think the players worry anymore about NZC contracts, if they are good enough cash won't be a problem. The only drawback is on one will remember you unless you are representing your nation but I guess that's the trade off if you want to secure your future. For a cricketer in NZ after retirement opportunities are quite limited.

 

[SteveNZ]

I guess my point of Will Young ideally not being a Test opener was lost in my misclassification of Div 1/2. I just don't want to see him opening. Our best side has Latham and Conway, with Kane at 3, Young at 4 and Nicholls at 5. Dunno who our best 6-8 is, nor the best make-up of our bowling attack for certain conditions, but it certainly is that top 5.

 

[nzfan]

On the subject of the miscellaenous classed warm-up games .

For the record, I ****ing hate them. But I can understand if you only have one game, then it is best to make it squad size rather than 11-a-side.

We have 2 of these games.

I could then understand making the first one, everyone gets a car, but the second one should be proper mental prep, proper FC status.

OK, then someone, Fuller Pilch I think, said above. That they are of that status so that returning IPL players can drip feed in as they become available. OK, there's some logic .... I can junderstand that. But both games?

Then make the first one of FC status.

There are 2 sides to prep. The time in the middle and bowling loads etc. But also the mental side. Which comes with playing FC status matches that (at least some) people care about their career records.

We will turn up to the first test as mentally soft as a jellyfish, despite 2 warm-ups. That's not good enough.

It says something, that I hope Will Young and CdG will be kept away from the blackcaps camp during (at least part of) this time.

Yup same.... they retire batters if they get to 50 and then use 10 bowlers to bowl few overs. Not the same intensity as a first class game. Just a glorified net session in the middle. Wasted good couple of opportunities.