*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[TheBrand]

Fair on leaving Ross out for just the ODIs, since he's not in the mix for T20s anyway, an overseas tour in the bubble for just a few JAMODIs rn I understand leaving him out.

Also re: Munro, I'd say fair call. Phillips/Allen and others show up for all the other series and just directly picking Munro only for WT20 seems kinda meh. Surely you'd expect him to tour with the team if he's indeed interested in playing? Especially since it's been a while now.

I really think Allen should be in the squad though, weird that he's picked for both tours but not the WC squad.

Yep, gonna be weird if Guptill doesn't get results and Allen or The Great Man get consistent scores...

How good though that we're getting 10 T20's before the WC and some of the players are getting IPL on the pitches used. Should have no excuse for not having decent prep.

 

[Bahnz]

Allen hasn't really been setting the world on fire in England, and India represents a very different challenge to anything he's faced before, so not surprised to see him miss out.

 

[M0rphin3]

Allen hasn't really been setting the world on fire in England, and India represents a very different challenge to anything he's faced before, so not surprised to see him miss out.

Ain't the T20 gonna be in UAE? Anyhoo, I really think odds of Gup firing are even less tbqh (he was quite meh in the PSL, and that was hardly the most difficult of tracks, Khawaja did score a bucketload of runs there). And surely the two series could provide a decent indication on whether Allen is gonna do alright in the WT20? I'd have defo included him in the squad.

 

[thundaboult]

Ain't the T20 gonna be in UAE? Anyhoo, I really think odds of Gup firing are even less tbqh (he was quite meh in the PSL, and that was hardly the most difficult of tracks, Khawaja did score a bucketload of runs there). And surely the two series could provide a decent indication on whether Allen is gonna do alright in the WT20? I'd have defo included him in the squad.

agreed

 

[thundaboult]

munro and milne missing out is hard to believe too

 

[vandem]

munro and milne missing out is hard to believe too

Guptill is the incumbent opener and scored 403 T20I runs average 31 SR 152 last season. I don't find it hard to believe he was picked ahead of Munro (or Allen).

They are playing in the UAE. I don't find it hard to believe they wanted a 3rd spinner ahead of a 5th quick (Milne).

 

[thundaboult]

Guptill is the incumbent opener and scored 403 T20I runs average 31 SR 152 last season. I don't find it hard to believe he was picked ahead of Munro (or Allen).

They are playing in the UAE. I don't find it hard to believe they wanted a 3rd spinner ahead of a 5th quick (Milne).

Bringing it back to Guptill regarding the UAE aka subcontinent conditions....Munro is much more proven than him in that area. He is also in good form unlike Guppy. I love Martin but no way in hell is he an incumbent opener for UAE conditions. Allen yeah, too raw too young. But then again we don't know anything about seifert in the UAE or subc as well.

 

[thundaboult]

By the way, it would have been cool to see clarkson and nathan smith get a game or 2 in these pak bang t20s. Oh well.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah I couldn’t believe Clarkson wasn’t named, what’s the point of playing some of these guys that have no 20/20 future?

 

[vandem]

Bringing it back to Guptill regarding the UAE aka subcontinent conditions....Munro is much more proven than him in that area. He is also in good form unlike Guppy. I love Martin but no way in hell is he an incumbent opener for UAE conditions. Allen yeah, too raw too young. But then again we don't know anything about seifert in the UAE or subc as well.

Good point. I didn't realise how good Munro's recent form in Pakistan Super League (in UAE) was - 7 innings 285 runs @ 57, SR 169. After a good BBL.

Guppy in comparison in PSL 69 runs @ 11, SR 104.

 

[thierry henry]

If we're talking incumbency, Munro is the incumbent T20 opener but for making himself periodically unavailable in order to play extremely well in various T20 franchise comps. Just really hasn't put a foot wrong in the format to even consider dropping him.

I'm also unclear on the whole unavailability situation, bit of a chicken/egg thing isn't it? Did he really just make himself unavailable or is it a bit of a cat and mouse thing (sorry to mix metaphors) because he knew he was about to be dropped?

 

[thierry henry]

Right, just remembered that this probably all started because he lost his central contract last year...I can't be bothered doing an analysis on how many T20 specialists get central contracts so maybe there was some logic to that, but it still seems harsh given his consistent output.

T20I average of 31.34 with a strike-rate of 156.44, and T20 average of 37.94 with a strike-rate of 140.21 in the 18 months since his last T20I....I don't get it.

 

[thierry henry]

And final point on Munro (whose batting I paradoxically loathe) - is there any rhyme or reason for why we need Seifert? Like, in what way is Seifert a patch on Munro with the bat? I can't see how they are even vaguely comparable, and surely we don't need Seifert's keeping?

 

[thundaboult]

And final point on Munro (whose batting I paradoxically loathe) - is there any rhyme or reason for why we need Seifert? Like, in what way is Seifert a patch on Munro with the bat? I can't see how they are even vaguely comparable, and surely we don't need Seifert's keeping?

Onnnnnnnlyyy things I can think of are that they will back Seifert because of his age and all the time invested into him recently. He's not an infant like allen, but also not an oldie like munro. He's approaching the perfect middle aged category NZC has a fetish for. Oh he's 25 to 29? Lets finally hand him a debut hur hur. Ok I'm just trolling now tbh but yeah, to not even include Munro in the final wt20 squad though?? Not even as injury cover?? Seriously NZC? So what if the guy hasn't made himself available for the pakbang t20s? The guy just played there (and really well) recently and will continue to gorge on more t20 diet, hence being more than ready for the wt20.

I guess its the same situation as Mcclenaghan in some ways, no central contract so no t20i selection either....even though you're vastly experienced in the format travelling around the world winning trophies.

Oh and I trust Milne way more in t20s than I do KJ. Much more proven. KJ has some big games ahead of him in the IPL to prove his worth.

Southee is a world class test bowler now but his continued inclusion in T20s is beyond me. Especially in the subcontinent as well where he usually gets smacked around in the white ball cricket.

 

[Nintendo]

Onnnnnnnlyyy things I can think of are that they will back Seifert because of his age and all the time invested into him recently. He's not an infant like allen, but also not an oldie like munro. He's approaching the perfect middle aged category NZC has a fetish for. Oh he's 25 to 29? Lets finally hand him a debut hur hur. Ok I'm just trolling now tbh but yeah, to not even include Munro in the final wt20 squad though?? Not even as injury cover?? Seriously NZC? So what if the guy hasn't made himself available for the pakbang t20s? The guy just played there (and really well) recently and will continue to gorge on more t20 diet, hence being more than ready for the wt20.

I guess its the same situation as Mcclenaghan in some ways, no central contract so no t20i selection either....even though you're vastly experienced in the format travelling around the world winning trophies.

Oh and I trust Milne way more in t20s than I do KJ. Much more proven. KJ has some big games ahead of him in the IPL to prove his worth.

Southee is a world class test bowler now but his continued inclusion in T20s is beyond me. Especially in the subcontinent as well where he usually gets smacked around in the white ball cricket.

Kj was pretty average in the first half of the ipl, took a few wickets but was really, really expensive, was going at 9 an over when rcb played most of there games on relatively good bowling pitches, too much back of a length and short length stuff from him, doesn't work in t20 when the batsmen can just go for a pull and if they top edge it'll go for 6 most of the time.

 

[thundaboult]

And I really like Seifert and KJ. Right up my alley. Exciting young talents who already have awesome stats when representing NZ. But to leave Munro and Milne in the friendzone? Come on now....

 

[thierry henry]

Seifert has modest stats coming from a background of modest domestic stats. And to me, he doesn't really *look* good either, but I guess that's subjective.

 

[M0rphin3]

Fair, I keep flip-flopping re: Munro, but the guy's in insane form across the leagues, across conditions, he'd defo be a loss tbh. And yeah, thinking about the central contract part, I'd say overall, fair enough to the guy, totally forgot that he was left out, and the guy's gotta earn tbf.

Also, Milne>KJam in T20s, anyday. But at least he's in the squad, so that's there.

Seifert didn't exactly set the world on fire at home, don't see him coping in UAE/subcontinent. Just thoroughly average tstl.

 

[Nintendo]

I feel like KJ could make a good #7 so that NZ can play 2/3 spinners without having to lengthen the **** out of the tail with santnav at #7.

 

[vandem]

Perhaps Munro just picked the wrong season to play BBL.

His last full season for NZ was 2019-20. He and Guptill had similar records, 313 and 264 runs, both @ 24, SR Munro 135 Guptill 153. But the team didn't do well, W4 L9 (yes, I know losses included 3 tied games lost in super overs).

2020-21 Munro not available (BBL) then not picked. Guptill 403 runs @ 31 SR 152 including 2 match winning knocks vs Aussie. Team record improved to W10 L3.

Stead's comment: "In the end, we've had a lot of success with guys in our squad in the last six months"