UK vs World / Jayasuriya

[Neil Pickup]

full_length:

How can you say that an argument is strange and then agree with it?

Eddie and I were making the same point, worded differently...

 

[BengalCat]

"As their averages are so similar, and Jayasuriya has hit many more tons, he has also (obviously) had far, far more failures."

Jaysuria have won man of the match award 30 times, on 8 occasions he won man of the series award.I'm sure Nasir must have been lucky enough to have won man of the match on few occasion but the comparision is really embaressing



I have said b/f, Nasir scores at snail pace, even his best is often not good enough.Jaysuria is indeed a superior onedayer player!!

[Edited on 8/29/02 by BengalCat]

 

[luckyeddie]

It just goes to prove that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

There are also people who are selective when they view statistics.

No-one is suggesting that Nasser Hussain scores his runs as quickly as Jayasuriya. If push came to shove, I would love Jayasuriya to be available to open the batting for England in ODIs.

There, record set straight, I am a great admirer of the way he plays his cricket. More than that - I am a bit of a Jayasuriya fan.

Now we come to the simple mathematics lesson which a number of people have been trying to get across.

If two players have the same average, yet one of the players has a higher percentage of 'successes' than the other, then Ipso Facto (that's Latin legal speak for 'by itself, of the facts' and so on) the same player must ALSO have a similar higher percentage of 'failures' than the other one.

QED (Quod Erat Demonstrandum).

 

[BengalCat]

The botton line is as to who is the better player? who has been the real match winner? Its a simple case of maths too, Jaysuria have won matches for SL on numerous occasions but Nasir????

St/rt is important in onedayers, Nasir sucks on that.ALSO Jaysuria is a very usefull bowler, he often makes it with his bowling when he fails with the bat!!

 

[luckyeddie]

Not getting me to disagree on those points - I think (like you) that Jayasuriya is a more valuable batter in ODI's when it is just a factor of run rate.

What other people have been trying to point out is they have different values and differing roles for their own sides - Hussain is the man who England rely on to steer the innings through. Sri Lanka have other people to play that role.

Moral - be sure of what you are going to say before you say it, otherwise you will cause a misunderstanding.

 

[full_length]

Cant seem to remember when they last met in a triangular...

Erm, this summer?

[Edited on 8/29/02 by marc71178]

uh.. mark, i know that..

The home ODI series was tied and England were beaten in England. Cant seem to remember when they last met in a triangular...

england were beaten in england (by India).
that was a triangular. i said i cant offhand recall the last triangular. the last major multination tournament india played england (and i remember clearly) was the WC, where again India beat Eng.

Eddie, thanks for the expansion of QED. I was just trying to remember that one a few days back. The last time i heard that was from my 11th grade maths teacher

 

[luckyeddie]

Yes, Latin is a great thread-killer.

And it's funny how you remember things from way back - you mentioning teachers just brought this one back -

First Latin I ever learned was in Malaya in 1962 (I was 9). We were studying a picture at the front of the class (but I was gazing out of the window).

The Latin I remember :

"Discipuli Pictorum Spectate".

To get the correct emphasis, the phrase has to be interspersed with a smack around the ears after every word, so it's really :

"Discipuli <whack> pictorum <whack> spectate <whack>".

Translation : "Pupils, look at the picture".

 

[warrioryohannan]

Jaysuria is not only the better batter, but also happen to be a very useful bowler and lead by example in onedayers.Even as a captain i would prefer Sanath over Nasir any time in onedayer

 

[Neil Pickup]

And Jayasuriya will also cost Sri Lanka more games by getting out cheaply and early. As a bowler he doesn't take many who aren't the tail, has a poor economy rate compared to others and his captaincy plan is this:

1) Give ball to Muralitharan
2) Give ball to Muralitharan
3) Give ball to Muralitharan
4) If that doesn't work, panic
5) If tailenders are in or game is dead, bowl self for cheap wickets

 

[scorpio]

I am not getting in this debate at this point. But need to point out that some of the crap posted is totally stupid.

Some ppl have been going on in this thread and in the overrated thread abt how Jayasuriya is crap as captain and bowls only when tailenders begin.

I have a request when you dont know the facts stop talkin out of your rear end.

So jayasuriya gets only tailenders...lets see the facts for a change..

Onedays:
total wickets: 226

Top Order (1-3): 50 (22.1%)
Middle Order (4-7): 117 (51.8%)
Tail (8-11) : 59 (26.1%)

Oh looks like he gets as many wickets of top order as tailenders...there goes that argument.
Let me throw in test stats for effect.

Test:
Total wickets: 69

Top Order (1-3): 15 (21.7%)
Middle Order (4-7): 33 (47.8%)
Tail (8-11) : 21 (30.4%)

haha...looks like someone got tailenders and top order mixed up..

I have seen quite a few matches where he came early in the game and influenced with the ball. (96 wc semi against india..for example)

THE REASON HE DOESNT COME EARLY:

1. He is not a specialist spinner
2. He is a batsman who can bowl
3. He plays for a team who have quite a few spinners.
4. He knows how good he is and uses it effectively instead of having illusions of being a world beater.
5. He is used in onedays as a container and as a partnership breaker in tests and he is good at both.
6. He throws the ball to murali ...coz he is tht good..and willing to bowl.

I agree he is not the greatest captain...but atleast doing a competant job. Plus he doesnt play politics as far as i know and also seems a nice guy.

So..instead of using perceptions ...use some facts..

 

[marc71178]

There is no way you can rate Jayasuriya ahead of Hussain as a captain in ANY form of cricket.

 

[BengalCat]

First of all, i never said that Jayasuria is a GREAT captain, HOWEVER he is MORE sucessful than Hussain in onedayer!!

As for giving the ball to murali, SL doesn't is unfortunate not to have World Class pacers like Hoggard so they have to depend on crap bowler like Murali, indeed Jayasuria's tactics are dumb!

Talking about cheap wkts, why don't u talk about cheap runs.HUssain lone ton came against a very weak attack, and a lousy fielding side.And after reaching his century he reacted in a disgusting manner, what a jerk he is!

 

[Neil Pickup]

OK, maybe not as much as I suggested - BUT the top order obviously bat more than the tail. So equal wickets with the tail means he takes the tail more proportionally.

However...

Even as a captain i would prefer Sanath over Nasir any time in onedayer

This is even more rubbish.

 

[Neil Pickup]

As for giving the ball to murali, SL doesn't is unfortunate not to have World Class pacers like Hoggard so they have to depend on crap bowler like Murali, indeed Jayasuria's tactics are dumb!

I'm assuming this is sarcasm. My point was that if Murali fails, Jayasuriya doesn't know what to do...

 

[scorpio]

Pearls of wisdom abt Jayasuriya.

Originally posted by Marc71178

He is also a little bit selfish IMO. How often do you see a team all out against SL with Jayasuriya coming on at the end of the innings and taking 2 or 3 tail-enders wickets? In fact he doesn't always take wickets, but does tend to bring himself on against the weaker bowlers.

Originally posted by Neil Pickup

And Jayasuriya will also cost Sri Lanka more games by getting out cheaply and early. As a bowler he doesn't take many who aren't the tail, has a poor economy rate compared to others and his captaincy plan is this:

1) Give ball to Muralitharan
2) Give ball to Muralitharan
3) Give ball to Muralitharan
4) If that doesn't work, panic
5) If tailenders are in or game is dead, bowl self for cheap wickets

Originally posted by Marc71178

All Jayasuriya does is throw the ball to Murali, then put himself on when numbers 9, 10 and 11 are in so he can get some cheap wickets.

Originally posted by Neil Pickup

I agree with Marc, especially from the point of view of the bowling.
Take the SA game the other day, Murali 8 overs, 1-18, Sanath 5 overs, 3-25 - v the tail. Makes Marc's point very well.

Welcome to the Neil Pickup and Marc71178 Dumb and Dumber show. THese are some gems from two threads. Oh sure the stats i posted illuminate thier posts..haha...

How abt checking the stats or may be watching a match before you two go around spouting tripe?

Incase you are confused check my earlier post in this thread abt jayasuriya's bowling figs.


Oh and one more thing...Gilchirst averages 33..jayasuriya avgs 31. Now gilly is a allrounder while jayasuriya is overrated....haha
I would like to see you two justify it. Well..next time..think before posting..


[Edited on 8/30/02 by scorpio]

 

[marc71178]

Oh and one more thing...Gilchirst averages 33..jayasuriya avgs 31. Now gilly is a allrounder while jayasuriya is overrated....haha

Yes Gilchrist is an all rounder because he can do another discipline to a very high standard.

Indeed you yourself in this thread have said that he's not an all-rounder, so work that one out.

I guess you didn't see any of his poor efforts in England this summer -but of course I can't have seen any of those because I don't watch cricket.

So I haven't taken several days off work this summer with the sole purpose of watching the Tests have I?

All you seem to want to do is come on here and pick arguments. Fine if you know ALL the facts, but if you don't, we'll tear you to shreds.

 

[luckyeddie]

Needs more iodine in his diet.

I suggest fish.

 

[scorpio]

Yes Gilchrist is an all rounder because he can do another discipline to a very high standard.

I agree. May i Suggest Jayasuriya in one days does a grt job of being a support bowler, gets wickets... AND IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW....DOES A GOOD JOB OF BOWLING IN THE SLOG OVERS.

But amazingly he is overrated...while Gilly is a allrounder.

Indeed you yourself in this thread have said that he's not an all-rounder, so work that one out.

Where have i said he is not a allrounder? Show me a quote ?

What ? ...oh thts right i didnt say it...you just made it up. Since when have you let facts cloud your judgement.

So I haven't taken several days off work this summer with the sole purpose of watching the Tests have I?

What makes you think i have ?. But Jayasuriya (FYI)has been playing for 8 yrs now. Over time i have seen a lot of performances. Thats how i form my opinion.

All you seem to want to do is come on here and pick arguments. Fine if you know ALL the facts, but if you don't, we'll tear you to shreds.

Oooh scary..how will u tear me to shreds? By making up stuff ? or by whining? haha

YOU GO AROUND POSTING THAT HE TAKES ONLY TAILENDERS WICKETS WITHOUT WATCHING MATCHES (or may be you started this summer).You also criticize HIS ECONOMY RATE.

He bowls a lot during the slog overs. Thats why such a high economy rate. Anyone WHO WATCHED HIM BOWL will know that.

I posted a few facts abt the break up of his wickets. Wht do a get from you?

A deadening silence and a made up quote.

The main purpose someone comes to a message board is to discuss, argue and show up dumb posters like you.

So now go reply to my post. Come up with a justification of how you came to that highly researched view that he takes only tailenders wickets. Or atleast direct your sidekick Neil to do that. Be careful dont let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[scorpio]

Needs more iodine in his diet.

I suggest fish.

I see your back Lucky (See i capitalized it..lol). So how are we today? Hope you had a good sleep yesterday.

Wanna talk abt something..hehe

 

[Neil Pickup]

your sidekick Neil

*cough*