Top Five Cricketers from each country

[h_hurricane]

For the record, Ashwin averages 48 in Australia, 46 in SA(only 3 matches though), 33 in England, 23 in WI, 22 in SL and 19 in BD.

So it has been only Australia which has been his bogey country. Even there he played a good part in winning a test match.

Overall away record is pretty decent: 108 wickets in 27 matches at 31.

He has been awesome in home conditions(234 in 38 matches at 22), where he has played in all kind of surfaces,vicious turners, flat pitches, pace friendly conditions occasionally as well.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ashwin transcends his stats when it comes to overseas bowling. His trash bowling pretty much by itself cost India two test matches in England and SA. I don't give a **** what he averaged when he can't do what a good spinner should do and bowl the team to a win in the second innings in turning conditions.

Not saying he can't turn it around obviously. It took kumble ages to git gud overseas and Ashwin has already shown signs of having what it takes, he just hasn't done it to any degree of consistent success so far.

 

[mr_mister]

That shouldn't come in the way of judging a cricketer objectively.

It should definitely affect a blokes chances of making his countries all time top 5 cricketers if he's discarded in his prime years

 

[h_hurricane]

Ashwin transcends his stats when it comes to overseas bowling. His trash bowling pretty much by itself cost India two test matches in England and SA. I don't give a **** what he averaged when he can't do what a good spinner should do and bowl the team to a win in the second innings in turning conditions.

Not saying he can't turn it around obviously. It took kumble ages to git gud overseas and Ashwin has already shown signs of having what it takes, he just hasn't done it to any degree of consistent success so far.

Yeah, agree with this. Him winning those matches would have got him ahead of Kumble. Kumble took more than a decade to learn how to do well overseas and finally got it right between 2002-04. Had an ATG period in 2003-04 where he bowled like a champion. This is the only thing that puts him ahead of Ashwin I would say. Not comprehensively though. Ashwin would get a few more chances. His career is nowhere going to be as long as Kumble's though.

 

[h_hurricane]

It should definitely affect a blokes chances of making his countries all time top 5 cricketers if he's discarded in his prime years

He is only an arguable case.

 

[marc71178]

For the record, Ashwin averages 48 in Australia, 46 in SA(only 3 matches though), 33 in England, 23 in WI, 22 in SL and 19 in BD.

So it has been only Australia which has been his bogey country. Even there he played a good part in winning a test match.

Overall away record is pretty decent: 108 wickets in 27 matches at 31.

He has been awesome in home conditions(234 in 38 matches at 22), where he has played in all kind of surfaces,vicious turners, flat pitches, pace friendly conditions occasionally as well.

What is the cut off for ignoring away averages? I note you haven’t highlighted how he’s only played 1 match in Bangladesh or 4 in the West Indies but are happy to ignore South Africa on the basis of small sample size.

 

[h_hurricane]

What is the cut off for ignoring away averages? I note you haven’t highlighted how he’s only played 1 match in Bangladesh or 4 in the West Indies but are happy to ignore South Africa on the basis of small sample size.

His one match in BD or 4 in WI is not enough to big him up. Nobody does it. At the same time his 3 matches in SA is not enough to bring him down as well.He has not even played a full series there. I was only presenting the stats as it is. It is not as embarrassing as it is perceived to be.

The cut off could be 2 series(5-6 matches) I reckon where the bowler has not learned from his past mistakes and continues to be trash. This could be a case for him in Australia. But he has played a decent part in winning a match there in 3rd trip.

 

[Borges]

Ashwin is the Jimmy Anderson of spin bowling. Neither would get into any top five lists or ATG teams; both very useful, and successful nonetheless.

 

[h_hurricane]

2 of the most condition dependent bowlers ever. Not that it is such a bad thing. One could add Kumble, Alderman, Jadeja and dare I say Lillee to that list.

 

[Malcolm]

Ashwin is on a par with Kumble as a bowler alone IMO
Ashwin easily a better cricketer.

 

[h_hurricane]

Ashwin is on a par with Kumble as a bowler alone IMO
Ashwin easily a better cricketer.

Batting ability at no.7 or no.8 is one of the under-rated aspects of cricket. In a straight comparison with Kumble, Ashwin easily wins on this one. Ashwin could be easily banked upon to score 30s and 40s on a regular basis. Kumble was just a moderate upgrade on his team mates when we had a hopeless tail.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ashwin's batting has tanked really really hard over the last 2 years

 

[h_hurricane]

That is true,averages 17 and 20 in 2017 and 2018 respectively. But he already has around as many runs as Kumble in half the matches. So there is no comparison there.

Probably shouldn't be playing that brain ****ed dreadful reverse sweep.

 

[Bolo]

What is the cut off for ignoring away averages? I note you haven’t highlighted how he’s only played 1 match in Bangladesh or 4 in the West Indies but are happy to ignore South Africa on the basis of small sample size.

He has played few enough that we can almost ignore his average in any one country. It is going to vary wildly depending on the decks and when he bowls. 1/4 or whatever innings I'd expect him to rip a hole through England or rsa away, assuming other guys aren't taking the wickets (actually closer to 3.99/4 against current rsa ). Plenty of times he will end up giving away 40 or so and maybe get a wicket. Could average 60 or 20 from the same bowling in a series depending on when he gets the ball. Want to see him do a consistent job applying pressure. An offie who can take 1/30 from 15 every innings is likely more valuable than one with figures all over the place and a single very good spell. He has had too many spells where he tries too much and gets tonked

 

[smash84]

isn't one of the reasons he hasn't played abroad as much is the fact that he is so completely toothless that he gets dropped?

 

[marc71178]

isn't one of the reasons he hasn't played abroad as much is the fact that he is so completely toothless that he gets dropped?

Another thing conveniently overlooked...

 

[aussie tragic]

I'm thinking a country top 5 should consist of the 'best of each discipline', so:

Bradman (bat)
Miller (allrounder)
Gilchrist (wk)
Lillee (pace)
Warne (spin)

 

[Starfighter]

Gimme McGrath for pace. Or Davidson even.

 

[AndrewB]

Viv literally won wi two wcs, never lost a series as a captain, tore apart fast bowlers the world over etc etc. The crap Lara pulled during our first tour of rsa in 98, now way viv would've done that. Viv>>Lara anyday of the week

I know his run-outs were crucial in the 1975 final, but to say a batsman who didn’t reach 20 in the tournament literally won WI the WC is excessive.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm thinking a country top 5 should consist of the 'best of each discipline', so:

Bradman (bat)
Miller (allrounder)
Gilchrist (wk)
Lillee (pace)
Warne (spin)

Right, here's what I've got doing it this way for the top 8:

Aus bat: Bradman ar: Miller wk: Gilchrist pace: McGrath spin: Warne	Eng: bat: Hammond ar: Botham wk: Knott pace: Trueman spin: Laker	India bat: Tendulkar ar: Kapil wk: Dhoni pace: ? spin: Kumble?	NZ bat: Williamson ar: Hadlee wk: Parore pace: Hadlee spin: Vettori
Pak: bat: Miandad ar: Imran wk: Bari? pace: Wasim spin: Saqlain	SA: bat: Pollock ar: Kallis wk: Waite pace: Steyn spin: Tayfield	SL: bat: Sanga ar: ? wk: Chanders? pace: Vaas spin: Murali	WI bat: Richards ar: Sobers wk: Dujon pace: Marshall spin: Gibbs

It rather breaks down where the one is the clear best in two categories (e.g. Hadlee), there is no clear candidate (e.g. a Sri Lankan all-rounder, unless I've forgotten someone) or there is a large gap between the best in one category and a 'replaceable' category (like WI and SA clearly having much better pace than spin bowlers). Also I couldn't decide a pace bowler for India. Many would still say Kapil, Srinath has a worse record, Nissar didn't play that much, Bhuvi is a personal favourite of mine but can't get in the team, and I think Bumrah might end up being the best but his career's very young. Also could go Barnes for Trueman for England.