Tim Paine fail thread

[SillyCowCorner1]

That was the move of the series.

 

[quincywagstaff]

What a great story his career and captaincy is.

Just learnt today that Michael Vaughan on Twitter said Carey should have replaced Paine for the 4th Test. Idiot.

 

[Burgey]

That bowling change of Labushagne to Leach was pure genius captaincy tbh. Just a quality move. He's actually been prepared to change up the bowling pretty well this series imo, often making double changes and being proactive changing ends and shortening spells if blokes haven't quite got things right. If he could jut fix up his use of DRS he'd have been almost flawless from a captaincy POV this series.

 

[Spark]

Yeah I was very critical of his tactics and decisions at both Lord's (in particular, bowling first in the sun) and Headingley but that was a legit iconic piece of captaincy there. Will go down in folklore.

 

[Burgey]

I really think he only bowled first at Lord's because of the shortened match and being 1-0 up. I suspect if it had been day one of a five dayer, he'd have batted but then again, he's done some other odd things as you say, so who knows

 

[Spark]

I really think he only bowled first at Lord's because of the shortened match and being 1-0 up. I suspect if it had been day one of a five dayer, he'd have batted but then again, he's done some other odd things as you say, so who knows

Yeah that does make sense, but I don't think it was a good idea regardless. Just getting too funky imo.

 

[the big bambino]

Some fair criticisms but I think the premise of the thread is a fail itself. Paine's personality has been been able to win back support for the team and now he's retained the Ashes with a hope of winning them. Compare that to some more illustrious names. He's made mistakes but look what he's had to work with. He'd have been pretty lonely without Smith and Warner in our summer and even in England lost Smith for a game and a half and Warner hasn't contributed at all. He's likeable and you can empathise with his situation. He doesn't have an ego that interferes with the best interests of the team. He's open to advice from former players off the field and more experienced colleagues on it. He bats well enough for a no.7 not named Gilchrist. I hope he's capable of staying on for a few years yet.

 

[morgieb]

I really think he only bowled first at Lord's because of the shortened match and being 1-0 up. I suspect if it had been day one of a five dayer, he'd have batted but then again, he's done some other odd things as you say, so who knows

I think his approach would've made more sense if he was 1-0 down tbh. In theory I agree that if it was a full 5-dayer he'd had batted first, but yeah he does seem to do too much funky stuff. In any case, always look up not down at a pitch like Lord's.

Smith certainly wouldn't have brought on Labuschagne at that point IMO and I doubt Ponting does either. Very Clarke-esque move.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah but the only way to lose is to give up 20 wickets, and if the game is reduced to four days, the chances of you even having to bat twice are reduced if you bowl first, which makes sense if you're in front in a series.

Anyway, don't disagree that he sometimes tries things which seem a bit funky, but I suppose the side might say they can do that every now and again because they're keeping things so tight generally it affords them the opportunity to have a dart at different tactics.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think his approach would've made more sense if he was 1-0 down tbh. In theory I agree that if it was a full 5-dayer he'd had batted first, but yeah he does seem to do too much funky stuff. In any case, always look up not down at a pitch like Lord's.

Smith certainly wouldn't have brought on Labuschagne at that point IMO and I doubt Ponting does either. Very Clarke-esque move.

I think this is a bit revisionist. Ponting did things like that. He would bring Clarke on for part-time lefties quite a bit, even with the game in the balance and needing quick wickets. Simon Katich a bit too.

 

[Daemon]

Man what a roller coaster. Death threats in one game and hero the next.

Some fair criticisms but I think the premise of the thread is a fail itself. Paine's personality has been been able to win back support for the team and now he's retained the Ashes with a hope of winning them. Compare that to some more illustrious names. He's made mistakes but look what he's had to work with. He'd have been pretty lonely without Smith and Warner in our summer and even in England lost Smith for a game and a half and Warner hasn't contributed at all. He's likeable and you can empathise with his situation. He doesn't have an ego that interferes with the best interests of the team. He's open to advice from former players off the field and more experienced colleagues on it. He bats well enough for a no.7 not named Gilchrist. I hope he's capable of staying on for a few years yet.

While I agree with the first part of your post in it's entirety, I think the bolded might be stemming from an overwhelming love for him at this stage. His batting and keeping are sub-par and you would hope an adequate replacement is around the corner.

His leadership is definitely his biggest asset right now, especially given there's not many other options.

 

[mr_mister]

I mean he averages more than Marsh and Healy and half a run less than Haddin in tests. He'd batted poorly in the first three tests this series and curiously the single FC century does raise questions, but he looks capable of contributing a couple of useful knocks every series which is I think good enough for a keeper who isn't Gilchrist as Bambino said

 

[TheJediBrah]

As far as keeper specialist-captains go, is he better or worse than Lee Germon?

 

[GoodAreasShane]

As far as keeper specialist-captains go, is he better or worse than Lee Germon?

Paine to be the next CEO of Cricket NSW. You heard it here first.

 

[the big bambino]

Man what a roller coaster. Death threats in one game and hero the next.



While I agree with the first part of your post in it's entirety, I think the bolded might be stemming from an overwhelming love for him at this stage. His batting and keeping are sub-par and you would hope an adequate replacement is around the corner.

His leadership is definitely his biggest asset right now, especially given there's not many other options.

Maybe. there's a spectrum that allows for the disagreement. I think his keeping is the best available. His batting adequate, as shown by his overall average and his efforts in the last test. At best the alternatives might match him in one dept or the other but even then there's no one (if you exclude Smith for obvious reasons) that can compete with him for captaincy. One of his closest rivals for that job is Head and we'd all agree Travis has to nail down his spot first.

Probably Carey might eventually make a test player but he's a long way off even getting into the side unless he makes it as a batsman first. Then he's got to turn himself into an adequate keeper. Well maybe Wade, but no ... So really I have to love him and admittedly its easy to fall in love with him.

 

[Daemon]

I mean he averages more than Marsh and Healy and half a run less than Haddin in tests. He'd batted poorly in the first three tests this series and curiously the single FC century does raise questions, but he looks capable of contributing a couple of useful knocks every series which is I think good enough for a keeper who isn't Gilchrist as Bambino said

There's a bit of middle ground between someone like him and Gilchrist, come on. Since taking over the captaincy he averages 25. Not to mention the occasional spill.

He's obviously the best choice still but there's no denying he's not very good. That's all I was getting at.

 

[mr_mister]

There's a bit of middle ground between someone like him and Gilchrist, come on. Since taking over the captaincy he averages 25. Not to mention the occasional spill.

He's obviously the best choice still but there's no denying he's not very good. That's all I was getting at.

That 25 stat leaves out that he averaged 45 during his initial 17/18 return before he got the captaincy, a period of 8 tests. So since his recall as a pretty old player he's averaged around 30 at least, good enough I reckon

I get the impression he's really well liked within the team and a good man manager. I'm not sure he's shown himself to be a tactical genius or anything but he seems mostly pretty sound and leading us to an overseas ashes victory should definitely extend his rope by a lot

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's probably about Mark Boucher level as both batsman and keeper tbh and that bloke played for over a decade

 

[the big bambino]

That 25 stat leaves out that he averaged 45 during his initial 17/18 return before he got the captaincy, a period of 8 tests. So since his recall as a pretty old player he's averaged around 30 at least, good enough I reckon

I get the impression he's really well liked within the team and a good man manager. I'm not sure he's shown himself to be a tactical genius or anything but he seems mostly pretty sound and leading us to an overseas ashes victory should definitely extend his rope by a lot

Yes, and remember that 25 ave in the current series is something some top order bats would envy. He has made blunders, especially around DRS but you'd give him some time because captaincy is a difficult art too.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Bowling first a terrible decision. This could end up Hussain levels of dire