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Things that will happen before Sachin's 100th 100

Cruxdude

International Debutant
It's all getting rather embarrassing now. Whether he gets it or not, this tedious saga will in later years come to be seen as the nadir of this odd Indian obsession with meaningless personal milestones.

The reductio ad absurdum of this all was clearly seen last sumer when Nasser Hussain opined that it would have been a shame if Tendulkar had got a century in the last Test of the England series, as it would probably have overshadowed the awful performance of the tourists and deflected them from carrying through the tough changes that were obviously long overdue.

Instead of seeing the sense in this quite honest assessment I remember that many respected Indian commentators reacted with howls of anguish and outrage: Nasser had committed an act of lese-majeste far worse than referring to the Indian 'seniors' as "donkeys" in the field. For some people it seems, cricket is hardly a team game at all.

I wonder whether the BBC will be celebrating Sachin's 60th as they are Sir Viv's when the time comes? Smokey blasted all comers to all parts for his team, and his personal statistics are rather modest by comparison to the Indian's. Yet whose actual achievements will be remembered with greater awe in the long run? My money is on the West Indian's. it was his very eschewal of personal milestones and love of the game, of gaining the psychological edge over the very best bowlers in the world such that his team would ultimately benefit, which ensures pretty much anyone who ever watched him play would agree they have never seen domination like it and would be ever willing to celebrate his greatness ungrudgingly and without caveats.

I honestly don't think the same can be said of Tendulkar. He has accumulated very well, but for me Dravid has been the big wicket in the Indian team and the mainstay of India's batting for most of the time they have batted together, and it is Dravid's (and to a lesser extent Laxman's) feats in the great Test matches that have been played in their time together that will be more fondly remembered, no matter how many centuries Tendulkar eventually racks up.

And if the latter carries on much longer with the tedious pursuit of this milestone - which in any case needs an asterix for those who do not realize that it includes centuries against the likes of Kenya and Namibia - he will tarnish our memories of what he has achieved in the game and ensure that he is remembered as a guy who, unlike IVA Richards, basically played for personal records and not for his team.
I disagree with this post on so many different levels. Yes the Indian public loves its records and its milestones, but attributing Sachin's failure to solely the pressure of this milestone is so wrong. You are seriously short changing the Aussie and the English bowlers with your post here. They have bowled brilliantly and Sachin has been caught in between attack and defense.

The line about playing for personal records is probably the most stupid line I have ever read on CW. Really, with no knowledge of his motivation other than what the crappy media has thrown at you, how could you come to that conclusion based on his last 30 innings. If he had retired before these 30 innings would you have put him up on a pedestal.

He has always had a problem in the 90s all through his career, nothing to do with the 99 centuries. I recall in 2006 or 2007 he got out some 7 or 8 times withing touching distance of a hundred. It is a quirk that such a great batsman with so many centuries gets nervous when he is in the 90s but Sach(:ph34r:) is life. Using that to say he plays only for personal glory is daft.

A selfish player playing for personal records would not have toughed it out after Tennis Elbow, back problems, a long run drought, the media turning against him. He would have quit to protect his legacy. Not the case here, he toughed it out and had an all time great comeback. Wonder what you would say if he again pushes on after coming out of this slump.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
AWTA. As I said elsewhere, random criticisms of Tendulkar are quite commonplace. He likes his records alright but he has team's interest at the forefront. I was never convinced looking at his batting in Australia that the milestone was affecting his mental approach. His shot selection was not even as tentative as it was during mid 00's slump.
 
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ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
If you wish to criticise media's and fan's obsession with individual records, I am with you even though that is also little exaggerated. After the embarrassing couple of series, the fans are quite exasperated and not looking forward to the 100th like they were an year ago. How do I know that? Having 100s of Indian friends on Facebook helps to know what the broader sentiment is.

The media works in funny ways. They will do a feature on how the whole world is waiting for the 100th and all, and then follow it up with another feature on how the distraction of the 100th is THE biggest reason for India's failure in Australia. Like duh! Milestone is distracting not just tendulkar but all the batsmen and bowlers!
 
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Contra

Cricketer Of The Year
I love it when people go "his 100 will overshadow problems blah blah". Seriously whoever thinks along those lines DOES NOT KNOW how Indian cricket works.

I can bet anything that even if Tendulkar had got his 100 in England or Aus and we still lost 4-0 our selectors wouldn't have done anything different than they are now. We played crap over the course of 8 test matches. That's all there is, nothing more. People can knock on our bowling effort all they want, but the fact is that our batting wasn't good enough to cross 300 in 15 of the 16 innings we batted. Absolutely 0 scoreboard pressure to work with for our bowlers (and barely any rest). Rahul Dravid retiring and hopefully Laxman also calls it quits soon would be the best thing to come out of our losses. Time to get the young guys in and if they fail that's fine.

Also why are we blaming only the Indian media again? The media as a whole deserves blame, every English and Australian news article was going gaga over the potential of it happening so it's hardly only India who's hyped it up.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
There is only one reason why no action is being taken by BCCI or selectors. The IPL. You can't fully back the money minting tournament if you admit Indian cricket is in crisis. They have to keep pretending that the national side is in good shape and there's nothing to worry. That's all and its bloody obvious. In past we did have post mortems, sacking of players and changing of captains (even though not as decisive and timely as they should ideally be). Can't do it anymore.
 
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Arachnodouche

International Captain
I think Sachin has played more than his fair share of compelling, memorable knocks over the years. It's just that he's been in the public eye for so darned long, and this craze over the 100th that has developed over the past year, that will unfortunately deprive a bit of sheen off his overall achievements. Coupled with a gradually emerging attitude among non-subcontinental cricket supporters to sort of "reclaim the throne" so the crown rests more snug on one of their pet favorites. As much as I detest Tendulkar lingering on, and as much as I hate his fans, facts say that he has fronted up to some of the best bowlers of the past twenty years in all conditions, and has scored truckloads against them. To my mind, the only two batsmen of the last 20 years fit to be mentioned in the same bracket were Lara and Tendulkar for their obvious talent, records, and the immeasurable impact they've had on cricket as a whole. Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Inzamam (as skillful as Lara and Sachin, and definitely more so than the other three), albeit giants of the game, will always be second best to those two.
 
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CWB304

U19 Cricketer
I love it when people go "his 100 will overshadow problems blah blah". Seriously whoever thinks along those lines DOES NOT KNOW how Indian cricket works.

I can bet anything that even if Tendulkar had got his 100 in England or Aus and we still lost 4-0 our selectors wouldn't have done anything different than they are now. We played crap over the course of 8 test matches. That's all there is, nothing more. People can knock on our bowling effort all they want, but the fact is that our batting wasn't good enough to cross 300 in 15 of the 16 innings we batted. Absolutely 0 scoreboard pressure to work with for our bowlers (and barely any rest). Rahul Dravid retiring and hopefully Laxman also calls it quits soon would be the best thing to come out of our losses. Time to get the young guys in and if they fail that's fine.

Also why are we blaming only the Indian media again? The media as a whole deserves blame, every English and Australian news article was going gaga over the potential of it happening so it's hardly only India who's hyped it up.
It's amusing to note how quickly those who can't handle any sort of balanced and objective assessment of Tendulkar rush in to twist the words of anyone they see as a dissenter. Clearly Tendulkar has become for some here a sort of idol who must be defended at all costs. How sad.

Now as for my actual post - as opposed to what some rather excitable persons imagined I wrote -, firstly, I have not once mentioned Indian media or blamed Indian media pressure on Tendulkar's failure to get to this milestone. Nor have I claimed any special knowledge of "how Indian cricket works". It is not necessary to know how Indian cricket works because the facts speak for themselves, and an intelligent observer should be able to decide for himself regardless of whether he is located in Manchester or Mumbai.

My critique was not about the media; rather I stated pretty plainly my belief that the milestone itself is completely artificial. No one was adding together Test centuries and ODI centuries before, as if they had the same value. ODI centuries, of which Sachin has no less than five against Kenya and Namibia, and another five I think against weak Zimbabwe attacks, have far less value and thus this 100 centuries hype is fundamentally flawed.

I did not mention the Indian media or blame their pressure on his failure to get it because for me it is quite immaterial whether the hype about this fake milestone leading to the "pressure" emanated from the media or not: the fact is it is a completely spurious achievement.

And for those trying to play the "it's not only an Indian obsession" card: pull the other one. Firstly, India has form. Imran made a very perceptive comment some time ago with respect to Tendulkar's quest and implicitly or perhaps explicitly name checking Richards when he said that real champions don't need to compile meaningless personal milestones to persuade others of their greatness: their real achievements speak for themselves. For me, Imran is one of the six or seven greatest cricketers that ever lived, yet the look in his eyes when he (or any other bowler from that era) talks about bowling to Richards tells me all I need to know about how truly great the master blaster was. He is great precisely because he does not need to pad out his stats with four meaningless ODI centuries against Kenya to prove it.

Yet Indians never get the point. Perhaps because they are so hopeless at sport in general - the country in the world with the lowest number of total Olympic medals per capita - they somehow lose all perspective when they have someone they see as a champion and succumb to the all-too human failing of making up for their failures in other sporting areas by artificially buffing him up - but their proselytism inevitably has the opposite effect.

The whole world knew that Kapil Dev was a great bowler and great allrounder, but only India would have allowed him to go one for so many matches when he was clearly past his prime and taking wickets at an inefficient rate that would not have justified his place in the team were he not Kapil (and keeping out a young Srinath who at the time was bowling beautifully) just so that he could break Richard Hadlee's record.

As if the aggregate for most Test wickets meant sweet f**k all outside the context! So what happened when Kapil eventually overtook Hadlee? It only served to highlight just how incomparably superior the New Zealander was, striking at something like six or seven runs a wicket (I'm typing from memory so could be wrong here) cheaper and with a far superior strike rate.

It is an Indian problem because Indians like the posters who have just responded to me do not seem to understand sport and what constitutes true sporting greatness! You do not become a sporting legend by double entry bookkeeping. An accountant might have advised Kapil that by breaking Hadlee's record he would fulfil all the criteria to recognized as the best, but for those who know and love the game it actually proved the opposite and ruined any sort of case he might have had for seriously belonging to the debate involving Imran, Botham and Hadlee about the great allrounders of that era.

This is because by the time he had acquired his fool's gold his stats, and more importantly the memory people had of him in his sad closing years, made it look like he had been a hack all along and not the top class new ball bowler - if a significant step below the above-mentioned three - that he had been in his prime!

Similarly Tendulkar is in danger of tarnishing his own considerable achievements in pursuit of the fool's gold of a quite meaningless personal stat which I can tell you now is not even taken particularly seriously outside his homeland. There is a huge difference between lazy journalists filing copy they know will play well with diaspora readers when India is on tour and genuine interest in say England or Australia in some of the more arcane details of the Indian quest to prove that they have produced the second-greatest or even greatest batsman of all times. In reality one of Tendulkar's own teammates during his Test career has better claim to that title,and this inglorious quest of the last year or so has if anything only served to underscore the fact that Tendulkar has actually gone backwards in the second half of his career. If he had trusted his instincts and really gone for it after the glorious burst of his prime years, he would not perhaps have the stats he has today, but would be remembered far more favourably than the play-it-by-the-percentages player he has been for at least the past decade.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
It's amusing to note how quickly those who can't handle any sort of balanced and objective assessment of Tendulkar rush in to twist the words of anyone they see as a dissenter. Clearly Tendulkar has become for some here a sort of idol who must be defended at all costs. How sad.
This, more than anything else is what bothers Tendulkar fans more than anything else. If you're not in agreement with an opinion that isn't favourable to the cricketer, it must be because you can't handle the criticism and are rushing in to defend your hero.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
If he had trusted his instincts and really gone for it after the glorious burst of his prime years, he would not perhaps have the stats he has today, but would be remembered far more favourably than the play-it-by-the-percentages player he has been for at least the past decade.
This period where Tendulkar did bat within himself also coincided with arguably India's most successful period in Test cricket. His job is to help India win games of cricket.

I don't think that you can mix up how Tendulkar has been travelling over the past year, with what he did from 2006 onwards after his form slumps earlier in the 2000s. I didn't think that there was much different between late Lara and late Tendulkar, both weren't as dominant in their style as what they were in their prime, showed glimpses of what they did in their prime when the feeling took them, and were still or nearly as productive as their younger peers.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
This, more than anything else is what bothers Tendulkar fans more than anything else. If you're not in agreement with an opinion that isn't favourable to the cricketer, it must be because you can't handle the criticism and are rushing in to defend your hero.
.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
This, more than anything else is what bothers Tendulkar fans more than anything else. If you're not in agreement with an opinion that isn't favourable to the cricketer, it must be because you can't handle the criticism and are rushing in to defend your hero.
I was responding to three successive posters who had just twisted what I wrote in my first post either by claiming that I was criticizing the Indian media and the pressure it had imposed on Tendulkar or that I was criticizing Tendulkar for succumbing to that pressure and playing differently etc.

In fact I hadn't mentioned the Indian media because I think they're irrelevant to this issue. The whole 100 centuries monument is smoke and mirrors and an illegitimate device which is being used to promote the false hypothesis that Tendulkar has separated himself from other batsmen of this era.

For me he can get another twenty centuries but he will still be behind Lara overall and behind Dravid his former teammate in terms of influence on India's performances in Tests.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
I think it is possible to make perfectly valid points on the issue without resorting to misrepresenting the intentions and motives of those who might disagree with you.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
I think it is possible to make perfectly valid points on the issue without resorting to misrepresenting of those who might disagree with you.
Are you referring to me?

If so, could you please tell me how I have misrepresented the intentions and motives of anyone who has disagreed with me? I would gladly apologize and mend my ways in the future if you can demonstrate such.

Regards and waiting,
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Are you referring to me?

If so, could you please tell me how I have misrepresented the intentions and motives of anyone who has disagreed with me? I would gladly apologize and mend my ways in the future if you can demonstrate such.

Regards and waiting,
Post #588, mate.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I was responding to three successive posters who had just twisted what I wrote in my first post either by claiming that I was criticizing the Indian media and the pressure it had imposed on Tendulkar or that I was criticizing Tendulkar for succumbing to that pressure and playing differently etc.

In fact I hadn't mentioned the Indian media because I think they're irrelevant to this issue. The whole 100 centuries monument is smoke and mirrors and an illegitimate device which is being used to promote the false hypothesis that Tendulkar has separated himself from other batsmen of this era.

For me he can get another twenty centuries but he will still be behind Lara overall and behind Dravid his former teammate in terms of influence on India's performances in Tests.
Wait, we you not criticizing Tendulkar for carrying on to play in pursuit of the 100th century? Rating Lara better than Tendulkar is something none of has an issue with.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
Post #588, mate.
Strange, I thought that in a previous reply to the post you're referring to I had already explained that not one or two but three successive posters, presumably Tendulkar fans had responded to my original post as if they had not even read it, responding to points I had not made with irrelevant arguments.

It was almost as if they had reply templates all worked up and ready to go out just for this thread. If one person had replied like that I might have given it no more thought; when three did so in quick succession then I though we might be dealing with some sort of weird cultic phenomenon.

Sadly for those responders, my gripe is not with the Indian media or with Tendulkar's ability to handle pressure but with the legitimacy of the so-called milestone itself. And if by any chance you also happen to perceive my claim that the hype over this milestone is being used to promote the agenda of Tendulkar as indisputably the best of this era as being another of my misrepresentations then do as I recently did a quick google search on "list tendulkar international centuries 99" to get a breakdown of who he'd made his centuries against. Instead of just the cold hard facts I was looking for I found literally scores of Indian websites just bursting to tell me how the fact that Tendulkar seems to have padded his numbers by filling his boots in an almost unseemly way against the likes of Kenya, Namibia and Zimbabwe over the years means he is not just the greatest since Bradman but the greatest full stop.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
Wait, we you not criticizing Tendulkar for carrying on to play in pursuit of the 100th century? Rating Lara better than Tendulkar is something none of has an issue with.
I don't quite understand the nature of your posting. I made quite a few points in my initial post which were ignored by you and another couple of posters in the rush to go on about matters I had not so much as mentioned such as the media and whether or no he was succumbing to the pressure.

If you want to have a reasonable back and forth about the points I have made then respond properly to my posts. Don't just bring up points out of context and in a totally random way that makes no sense at all.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Strange, I thought that in a previous reply to the post you're referring to I had already explained that not one or two but three successive posters, presumably Tendulkar fans had responded to my original post as if they had not even read it, responding to points I had not made with irrelevant arguments.

It was almost as if they had reply templates all worked up and ready to go out just for this thread. If one person had replied like that I might have given it no more thought; when three did so in quick succession then I though we might be dealing with some sort of weird cultic phenomenon.

Sadly for those responders, my gripe is not with the Indian media or with Tendulkar's ability to handle pressure but with the legitimacy of the so-called milestone itself. And if by any chance you also happen to perceive my claim that the hype over this milestone is being used to promote the agenda of Tendulkar as indisputably the best of this era as being another of my misrepresentations then do as I recently did a quick google search on "list tendulkar international centuries 99" to get a breakdown of who he'd made his centuries against. Instead of just the cold hard facts I was looking for I found literally scores of Indian websites just bursting to tell me how the fact that Tendulkar seems to have padded his numbers by filling his boots in an almost unseemly way against the likes of Kenya, Namibia and Zimbabwe over the years means he is not just the greatest since Bradman but the greatest full stop.
As far as I can see, Cruxdude was the only one directly addressing your post. This is a discussion forum, not a court of law, and subsequent posters are not obligated to stick to a template wherin they strictly address the points you want addressed. They're free to add their own opinions on any issue that may or may not have been brought up by yourself. Your response was uncalled for.
 

benchmark00

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Joe still seething after it was categorically proven that Ponting is better than Tendulkar in the 'Ponting vs Tendulkar' thread imo.
 

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