The Kane Williamson Average Watch thread

[Furball]

Steyn is up there with Marshall and Hadlee obviously, and many would say McGrath is too.

The fact McGrath never had to bowl to the best batting side of his era (for reasons out of his control) flatters his statistics somewhat IMO.

McGrath bowled on the flattest pitches in world cricket and averaged 20 while doing so.

He also bowled against all of those blokes in the Shield, and did quote well for himself.

 

[Chrish]

1. Marshall
2. Mcgrath
3. Hadlee
4. Steyn

in that order for mine

 

[TheJediBrah]

1. Marshall
2. Mcgrath
3. Hadlee
4. Steyn

in that order for mine

sounds about right

still feel that Steyn is being overrated slightly though

 

[CM Punk]

Said it before and I'll say it again... overrated and doesn't belong in the same group as Kohli, Root and Smith.

 

[SteveNZ]

Said it before and I'll say it again... overrated and doesn't belong in the same group as Kohli, Root and Smith.

Will you say it the next time he scores runs?

 

[Burgey]

He's technically proficient but lacks a bit of killer/ mongrel to take him to the next level. Happy with a pretty 30. Spud

 

[CM Punk]

He's technically proficient but lacks a bit of killer/ mongrel to take him to the next level. Happy with a pretty 30. Spud

In a few years we'll look back and have a laugh about why he was ever considered to be in the same ilk as Kohli, Root and Smith.

 

[TheJediBrah]

In a few years we'll look back and have a laugh about why he was ever considered to be in the same ilk as Kohli, Root and Smith.

I have a feeling this is pretty much spot on

 

[Burgey]

Nah don't agree tbh. If he played for India, Australia or England he'd be hailed as the messiah. Bloke can seriously play. We'd kill for him in our top four in tests, and that's the format which matters.

 

[Burner]

Guy's just going through a rough patch. Not the first time people have taken the pitch forks out and labelled someone **** just because of a rough patch, not going to be the last as well.

 

[indiaholic]

In a few years we'll look back and have a laugh about why he was ever considered to be in the same ilk as Kohli, Root and Smith.

I think you are about as wrong as you could be. He is 100% a part of that club. But then you will never be able to appreciate a player as long as he is a NZer.

 

[honestbharani]

I do agree he needs to be a bit more ruthless as a batsman. Sometimes he gives me the impression that he cares about how he gets his runs and whether he played something right or not etc. Sometimes you just have to ensure that your #1 focus is just on scoring runs, how you get them is really mostly irrelevant as long as it is not some huge technical deficiency. No batsman can play every ball perfectly but more importantly, not even a batsman who plays every ball perfectly is guaranteed to score the runs his team needs off them. He needs to loosen up on the technique side and concentrate on just the scoreboard IMO.

 

[SteveNZ]

I have a feeling this is pretty much spot on

You've not seen him bat enough then.
He's in a bit of form slump at the mo. What ATG, including the recent ones named, haven't had those? And that form slump is only averaging 47 this year, because his conversion rate took a dive.

My hope is he loses the captaincy, a role to which he's not really suited, and goes back to having a bloody-minded focus on himself and his run output.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah don't agree tbh. If he played for India, Australia or England he'd be hailed as the messiah. Bloke can seriously play. We'd kill for him in our top four in tests, and that's the format which matters.

You're saying he's not already? Have you ever seen a NZer post on here?

You've not seen him bat enough then.
He's in a bit of form slump at the mo. What ATG, including the recent ones named, haven't had those? And that form slump is only averaging 47 this year, because his conversion rate took a dive.

My hope is he loses the captaincy, a role to which he's not really suited, and goes back to having a bloody-minded focus on himself and his run output.

I'm not saying I think that he's no good, just said I have a feeling. Like he might never get back to being how good he was.

Hopefully it doesn't come to pass, obviously.

 

[SteveNZ]

You're saying he's not already? Have you ever seen a NZer post on here?



I'm not saying I think that he's no good, just said I have a feeling. Like he might never get back to being how good he was.

Hopefully it doesn't come to pass, obviously.

Haha, he's definitely hailed as a messiah in this country. 'Steady the ship' Williamson, he is known as.

I hear what you're saying, I just don't think a guy who works as hard as he does and has had massive success in the past can be kept down for too long. His issues are outside off stump, and they've been that way for a couple of years now - nicking off on about 5th stump, front and back foot. It's so hard to get him out any other way, you won't hook him out, doesn't seem to get lbw or bowled much etc. If he finds a way there, he'll be back to the Kane we know and love.

 

[NZTailender]

I think he'd be back to that Kane but with the added responsibility of captaincy he's not there yet. And, tbh, I don't see him flourishing into a fine captain unless he has some sort of epiphany that breaks him out of his set plan shell.

 

[Victor Ian]

I do agree he needs to be a bit more ruthless as a batsman. Sometimes he gives me the impression that he cares about how he gets his runs and whether he played something right or not etc. Sometimes you just have to ensure that your #1 focus is just on scoring runs, how you get them is really mostly irrelevant as long as it is not some huge technical deficiency. No batsman can play every ball perfectly but more importantly, not even a batsman who plays every ball perfectly is guaranteed to score the runs his team needs off them. He needs to loosen up on the technique side and concentrate on just the scoreboard IMO.

You describe the difference between Steve and Mark Waugh. Kane needs to be less Mark, and more Steve to be great. That is kind of sad.

 

[honestbharani]

TBH, in my head, it read as more the difference between Dravid and Sachin... At times, I have seen Dravid get a bit uptight about his technique when there is no real need to worry. If you look at Sachin, he, amongst all the modern batsmen, seemed to have the perfect balance between aiming for technical perfection and getting the runs on the board. He worked on his technique when it caused him to fail in his main job - scoring runs. But as long as he was scoring them, he didn't worry about the slight technical issues that might have crept into his game over time, which it does for anyone AFAIC.

 

[Chrish]

sounds about right

still feel that Steyn is being overrated slightly though

Why do you feel that way? There are three reasons why I rate Steyn highly:

1. Decade of dominance

Starting from Indian tour of 2006 till 2015, SA hasn’t lost a single away series. I have gone through the list and if I am not wrong, EVERY series includes at least one match-defining Steyn performance. Some of these performances resulted in two draws in India, two wins in Australia, series win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka (when their batting wasn’t a joke) etc. I mean this achievement alone is enough for Steyn to be considered for GOAT title.

2. GOAT performance in Asia

Steyn to me is by far the most successful non-asian pace bowler in subcontinent. To put things into perspective, Steyn, Marshall and Mcgrath have played 20, 19 and 19 tests in SC respectively. Mcgrath took one 5fer; Marshall took three while Steyn took five 5fers!

Only Hadlee has comparable number of five in 13 tests while keeping in mind that two of them were against Lanka when they were pretty much minnow. Steyn’s performance came against some of the strongest batting units India/ Lanka ever assembled. Sure his numbers don’t look good against England and Australia, but his performance on Asian roads makes up for it. Also his average against England is higher because of poor debut (the similar reason why Mcgrath averages higher against SA).

Steyn is the most destructive pacer in Asia IMO.


3. Unmatched SR

Steyn stands at no.4 in terms of best SR ever. Now if you look at top 10 or even 20, the list is completely dominated by players from pre-WW 1 era. Only Steyn and Waqar are from modern era in top 10 (Bond doesn’t qualify IMO). Waqar took 373 at 43 while Steyn took 417 at 41. Steyn’s SR considering the number wickets is simply put out of this world!

Records | Test matches | Bowling records | Best career strike rate | ESPN Cricinfo


Mcgrath and Steyn are the two best bowlers I have seen. Mcgrath consistently punched out top order and rest of the attack capitalized on it not giving any chance to opposition to recover. Steyn on the other hand is more destructive and ran through the sides more often (as evident by his 5fers and SR). I think both players are equally important to their team.

In the end I give an edge to Mcgrath because I reckon he troubled ATG batsmen more consistently than Steyn.

 

[SteveNZ]

TBH, in my head, it read as more the difference between Dravid and Sachin... At times, I have seen Dravid get a bit uptight about his technique when there is no real need to worry. If you look at Sachin, he, amongst all the modern batsmen, seemed to have the perfect balance between aiming for technical perfection and getting the runs on the board. He worked on his technique when it caused him to fail in his main job - scoring runs. But as long as he was scoring them, he didn't worry about the slight technical issues that might have crept into his game over time, which it does for anyone AFAIC.

It's a good point. To use another sport's example, Padraig Harrington won 3 majors in a couple of years - Tiger-esque achievement - then completely remodelled his swing in pursuit of perfection. Then completely crapped out, was never near the same again (and is only now getting back to near winning ways). Maybe that is something that is/will afflict Kane, given he knows so much about the craft of batting. Maybe he does worry about where his left elbow is over just hitting the ball.