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The Inaugural World Test Championship

Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
Better bowling line-up than ours, whether that's to do with spin or seaming conditions. They can pick at least three guys (Ali, Bess, Leach) who are international quality spinners whereas we have none, so they'd have that advantage over us in the right conditions. Their seam attack is probably slightly better than ours. You're probably right, our superiority in the top 4-5 probably gives us the edge though. No Root (and Stokes to a lesser degree) runs, no totals - whereas we aren't dependent on Kane like that anymore and we hope with Conway/Young that'll continue.

They might keep losing Tests to Windies etc but they also went 2-2 v Australia and won a Test in India. This side hasn't done that yet. In all conditions, maybe we are just slightly above them as you say...but it's not a big difference. They turned up here unmotivated last year (probably will do so this year too without IPL players) but in a final in neutral conditions they'd have the right to feel near as likely as us to win.
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I do not agree that England's spin bowling options are any better than New Zealand's. Bess in particular looks like an average bowler at this stage of his career. Ali has been broken as a bowler in tests for several years. Leach is good, but I don't think I'd agree that he's obviously better than either Patel or Sommerville.

I'd tend to think that Anderson and Broad are better than Boult and Southee, but then again they keep getting D R O P P E D every other game so maybe not. And Wagner is comfortably better than any 3rd seamer that England's fielded since Tremlett broke.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
India can't play the moving ball, it's why the modern Indian lineup has done so poorly in Eng/NZ conditions. I mean credit to them they can play well in Australian conditions which few others can do but you'd never favour them where grass grows or skies are cloudy.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
sunilz said:
I think all Cricket teams should now invite NZ for atleast 3 match test series. This is extremely pathetic scheduling . NZ have played less test overseas than Bangladesh in last 4 years
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NZ don't even host other teams for 3 match test series. It's mostly their own fault they don't play many Tests
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Bahnz said:
I do not agree that England's spin bowling options are any better than New Zealand's. Bess in particular looks like an average bowler at this stage of his career. Ali has been broken as a bowler in tests for several years. Leach is good, but I don't think I'd agree that he's obviously better than either Patel or Sommerville.

I'd tend to think that Anderson and Broad are better than Boult and Southee, but then again they keep getting D R O P P E D every other game so maybe not. And Wagner is comfortably better than any 3rd seamer that England's fielded since Tremlett broke.
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England's spin bowling options are definitely better than ours. Leach has an average of below 30 which is pretty impressive, bowled well in India. Ali at 36s and the ability to turn the ball (took 8-for last month, ask Kohli whether he's broken). Bess OK, he's not a world beater but can take wickets and as a 2nd/3rd choice spinner is much better than the guy we pick first as a default (Santner). Then their captain can bowl a bit and actually bowls himself unlike Kane. That would give them a decent advantage on turning tracks if we're going neutral ground.

Don't tip into the Burge dropping stuff mate you're way above that. Anderson and Broad are better, Archer isn't as effective as Wagner but on his day he is, then Ollie Stone is pretty reasonable too.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
sunilz said:
I think all Cricket teams should now invite NZ for atleast 3 match test series. This is extremely pathetic scheduling . NZ have played less test overseas than Bangladesh in last 4 years
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How to even know the actual rating of a side when they have only played 8 away matches in 4 years. Lack of scheduling is unbelievable
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
England's spin bowling options are definitely better than ours. Leach has an average of below 30 which is pretty impressive, bowled well in India. Ali at 36s and the ability to turn the ball (took 8-for last month, ask Kohli whether he's broken). Bess OK, he's not a world beater but can take wickets and as a 2nd/3rd choice spinner is much better than the guy we pick first as a default (Santner). Then their captain can bowl a bit and actually bowls himself unlike Kane. That would give them a decent advantage on turning tracks if we're going neutral ground.

Don't tip into the Burge dropping stuff mate you're way above that. Anderson and Broad are better, Archer isn't as effective as Wagner but on his day he is, then Ollie Stone is pretty reasonable too.
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In comparing Leach v NZ spinners, it's worth taking a gander at how he's done when he's played here: 4 wickets at 66.5 apiece. One of those tests was on one of the only semi-friendy to spin surfaces in the country, and he was actually outbowled by Mitch ****ing Santner on it. Patel averages below 30 outside NZ as well. Sommerville also with a decent record overseas, especially when you consider that his brief career was blighted by the torment of bowling first at #SCGsospinny.

Ali taking 8/240 on a dust bowl is the equivalent of Lakmal taking 5/150 on an NZ green top. It doesn't look too bad at first, but when you read the surrounding scorecard it comes across as a shocking waste of helpful conditions. The fact that he's now pretty much exclusively called on to bowl in turning conditions (less and less regularly as time has passed) is a sign of how much England trusts his bowling.

Regarding Bess and Santner - this is a rather disingenuous comparison. We only ever pick Santner because we know that NZ pitches aren't going to offer anything to spinners, and so we want a bowler who can keep things relatively tight, give the seamers a rest and contribute with the bat. That's Santner's role and it increasingy looks like the selectors don't see the value in even that.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha, I hope your viewpoint isn't shared by NZC as a whole. A good spinner would solve many problems, whether it be closing out Test matches in late summer or abroad, or developing the ability to play good spin.
 
Chrish

Chrish

International Debutant
Conditions suit far more to Kiwis than Indians tbh. It’s like opposite of organizing a final between these two teams at UAE.

NZ favorite IMO.
 
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